Jenny Beth sits down with Salleigh Grubbs (Cobb County GOP Chair) to talk about a recent rules change that Salleigh was able to get through the county elections board to help safeguard elections.
Twitter: @cobbgop @jennybethm
[00:00:00] Securing our elections is a nonpartisan issue. It's something that we should do,
[00:00:05] whether you're a Republican or a Democrat or an independent, libertarian,
[00:00:09] whatever the case may be. This is a nonpartisan issue. Keeping our Republic is
[00:00:15] on the line and it requires patriots with great passion, dedication and
[00:00:19] eternal vigilance to preserve our freedoms. Jenny Beth Martin is the
[00:00:24] co-founder of Tea Party Patriots. She is an author, a filmmaker, and one of
[00:00:29] Time magazine's most influential people in the world. But the title she is most
[00:00:33] proud of is Mom to her Boy Girl Twins. She has been at the forefront, fighting
[00:00:39] to protect America's core principles for more than a decade. Welcome to the
[00:00:44] Jenny Beth Show. Sally thanks so much for joining me again on the Jenny Beth
[00:00:48] Show. You have done something that hasn't been done in quite a while in
[00:00:51] Georgia and that is you just got a rules passed with the state election
[00:00:56] board. Is that correct? That's correct. First, for people who are not from
[00:01:01] Georgia, explain what does the state election board in Georgia do and then
[00:01:05] talk about your rule change and what happened with that. So in the state
[00:01:10] of Georgia we have the state election board which under SB 202 that happened
[00:01:16] several years ago has changed quite a bit. Previously you had the Secretary
[00:01:20] of State who was the chair of the state election board and that kind of
[00:01:23] thing but in the post 2020 world a lot of that has changed under SB 202 and so
[00:01:30] the state election board previously had not really been too active. Their job
[00:01:36] is to promulgate rules and regulations and to help administer
[00:01:41] elections in the state. The actual administration of the elections is to
[00:01:45] happen on the local boards of elections but the Secretary of State
[00:01:51] has traditionally been in charge of getting together the voter role
[00:01:57] information and maintaining the voter database registry and all that kind of
[00:02:00] thing. The state election board has been there to hear cases where there
[00:02:07] have been violations. Now the Secretary of State is no longer part
[00:02:15] of the ruling body of the state election board so under the
[00:02:19] administrative practice rules and regulations they can promulgate rules. So
[00:02:26] the legislature will pass the laws and then the state election board itself
[00:02:29] can put through rules that will help in the administration of elections and
[00:02:34] how voter rolls are handled and things like that. So under the
[00:02:38] Administrative Procedure Act you can propose rules and regulations and so
[00:02:44] it's just another way to get things done where you don't have to rely on
[00:02:47] the legislature to do that. Okay and then what did you want to have happen?
[00:02:52] So since the consent agreement was done in 2020 with the drop boxes you
[00:02:58] know Georgia previously did not have drop boxes for dropping off absentee
[00:03:04] ballots, advanced voting ballots and things like that. What we
[00:03:09] wanted to do was to secure our elections even more by securing the
[00:03:14] drop boxes. So the you know we've kind of seen an ebb and flow of the drop box
[00:03:20] situation and one of the things that was not done is there was no chain of
[00:03:24] custody on dropping off absentee ballots. So the rule proposal that I
[00:03:29] put forth was to kind of tighten up that whole situation with drop boxes
[00:03:34] and also provide that just like when you go into vote you have to present
[00:03:39] your identification to vote to make it so that when people go drop off absentee
[00:03:45] ballots they also have to provide verification of their ID and also their
[00:03:50] relationship to the voter so that you don't have random people or the mules
[00:03:54] so to say that come in and just drop off multiple ballots without
[00:03:59] provenance and without chain of custody. So it tightens up the rule over
[00:04:04] chain of custody and it also requires that surveillance be on drop boxes if
[00:04:11] they're if the drop boxes are in areas that they're not monitored by an
[00:04:15] individual that they have to be under video surveillance and after 2020 one
[00:04:20] of the things we saw as well was that a lot of the drop boxes they had
[00:04:26] video because that was required under 202 then the video was not required so
[00:04:32] there were some boards of election that did keep the video in place just to be
[00:04:36] extra sure that things were done appropriately and then there were
[00:04:39] others that quit videoing altogether but one of the things that that happened
[00:04:44] was that was not considered evidence and so they destroyed the videos and
[00:04:48] they did not keep the videos and under my rule proposal it would
[00:04:53] require the videos become part of the evidence chain and verifying who
[00:04:58] went to the drop box and who dropped off what so a lot of more security and
[00:05:05] how long do they have to keep the videos it would be in the same
[00:05:08] accordance with these state rules and regulations you have 24 months under
[00:05:13] federal law in 22 months so they would have to keep all of the
[00:05:17] evidence the same way that they would the ballots that's amazing it is
[00:05:22] amazing and you were told you were personally told in 2020 that you were
[00:05:28] watching the old ballots from yes 24 months earlier be destroyed that was
[00:05:35] that was that was a whole ordeal they did not you know in 2020 what we saw
[00:05:43] was the shredding of evidence including the absentee ballot envelopes
[00:05:47] and all of that kind of thing that was just sucked up into a shredding
[00:05:52] truck and destroyed so this was a very big personal victory for me to
[00:05:57] mandate to have them mandate that it would have to be retained so I think
[00:06:02] that's really important and it should give people more confidence in the
[00:06:06] election and it provides more transparency in the election as well
[00:06:11] which I think is extremely important because as we have the transparency
[00:06:16] still having a secret ballot but having a trend having transparency in
[00:06:21] the process it can help restore faith in the outcome of it and maybe
[00:06:26] people on who are more liberal who didn't support Trump didn't vote for
[00:06:30] Trump maybe they don't understand the importance of this but if their side
[00:06:34] winds up getting in a contested primary or there's shenanigans on
[00:06:37] their side it's going to protect both sides it protects all sides of the
[00:06:42] election process no matter what it isn't about Trump or not Trump it's
[00:06:46] about what's what's right to do for the process well that's it that's
[00:06:50] completely a hundred percent the truth and I also mentioned that because
[00:06:55] when you go present at the state election board this particular meeting
[00:07:00] they had it set in one day and then they broke it up into a two-day process
[00:07:04] because of everything that they had on the calendar I mean they're still
[00:07:07] hearing cases from 2020 yes which is kind of unbelievable I mean this board
[00:07:12] is more proactive right now with the change in the chairman and so I'm
[00:07:17] very pleased from that perspective but there are so many things that were
[00:07:21] never properly investigated and I think anybody could have seen some of
[00:07:25] the reports and said oh my goodness I can't believe that you know this is
[00:07:29] what's happening so I do feel better about that but they broke it up into
[00:07:34] the day two which was the hearing of the rule changes and Bridget Thorn
[00:07:39] who's a wonderful amazing person she presented before me and it was very
[00:07:45] frustrating because after I heard her present her rule change and it did not
[00:07:51] proceed and they give you the opportunity to either withdraw it or to
[00:07:56] let them rule on it so she did not withdraw it and they ruled on it and
[00:08:00] said you know we're gonna reject the rule and I thought oh my goodness
[00:08:03] they're not gonna they're not gonna let me proceed but after I presented
[00:08:08] it and I had probably a good 20 minutes to go through why I thought
[00:08:13] it was important and it was it was kind of testy but what I told them is this is
[00:08:20] a nonpartisan issue securing our elections is a nonpartisan issue it's
[00:08:26] something that we should do whether you're a Republican or a Democrat or an
[00:08:30] Independent, Libertarian, whatever the case may be. Constitution Party.
[00:08:34] Constitution Party. Ricardo I would appreciate us reminding people that
[00:08:37] there are people active in that party. Absolutely the Constitution Party has
[00:08:41] been key in getting things done I mean Garland has been working for years
[00:08:45] years and years to to get more fair elections and so my rule proposal is
[00:08:51] really a nonpartisan thing and one of the reasons that it came up is that
[00:08:55] when you have more activist local boards of elections they want to you
[00:09:01] legislation comes out and then they try and figure out a way to get
[00:09:05] around it and we found that in my county in Cobb County because some of
[00:09:11] the more activist members we had never had a drop-off location that was other
[00:09:16] than a board of election office they decided to start accepting ballots at
[00:09:22] libraries because libraries are considered government buildings and so I
[00:09:27] actually went and observed at a library last in 2022 and they told me
[00:09:35] that I couldn't be there I couldn't observe and I said well this isn't a
[00:09:37] poll this is a library and they went ahead and called the deputy sheriffs
[00:09:43] over and you know we had a nice little chat and everything was fine and
[00:09:46] I you know I stayed and I did exactly what I intended to but the problem
[00:09:50] was that they were just accepting ballots from who whoever walked in
[00:09:54] they didn't have to show identification and so this is a real
[00:09:59] problem but now they have to prove the chain of custody and I feel like
[00:10:04] it was a real victory I don't think people really realize that it that it
[00:10:08] was a big victory but since 2020 we've had to take incremental wins and we
[00:10:14] have to celebrate those wins and so mine was passed congratulations thank
[00:10:20] you I felt like having a big party afterwards and then Mike Keegan from
[00:10:24] Fulton County had a win his win his win was they you know when it comes
[00:10:30] to certifying elections the way that the statute is written they call it a
[00:10:36] ministerial act they say that you just certify it whether it's accurate or
[00:10:41] not and that's been a big problem here in Georgia because when you have
[00:10:46] conscientious people who are on our local boards of elections they want
[00:10:50] to say okay let's see if the number of people who checked in equals the
[00:10:55] number of ballots that were cast seems pretty simple right doesn't seem out
[00:11:00] outrageous but what we consistently see is that the number of people who check
[00:11:04] in sometimes that's more than the ballots that were cast and sometimes we
[00:11:11] end up with more ballots cast than people that checked in I mean it see
[00:11:18] that's the thing it is how is it how is it possible but unless we treat
[00:11:22] elections like you would normal accounting procedures and unless you
[00:11:26] have proper chain of custody procedures you just don't know and so a friend of
[00:11:32] mine who's on a local board of election wanted to see those records let's see
[00:11:37] a printout of who checked in and let's just compare the number to the
[00:11:41] number of ballots cast or the number of cards cast so you've got the
[00:11:46] cards cast you know because we are using Dominion voting systems but
[00:11:50] then you actually have the physical ballots let's just do a three-way
[00:11:53] match and see if those numbers shake out and she was denied they wouldn't
[00:11:59] allow her to do it and so Mike's rule is to actually define what
[00:12:05] certification is because it's one of those words you would think I mean
[00:12:10] common sense would tell you let's certify let's look at the records
[00:12:14] let's look at the numbers and see if those numbers match but there was no
[00:12:18] actual definition for the word so Mike's rule puts forth an actual
[00:12:23] definition for what certification means and one of the problems is there was a
[00:12:29] there was a more liberal group that sent out a letter saying that if you
[00:12:37] don't certify we're gonna sue you right and that was sent to a lot of
[00:12:40] people who said look I can't certify I can't be sure that this was an
[00:12:45] honest election so I can't I can't vote for that and this group sent letters to
[00:12:52] people like that that said we're gonna sue you if you don't certify so you
[00:12:56] would be they claim will you be breaking the law you have to vote to
[00:13:00] certify correct and if you have to vote to certify then why do you need
[00:13:03] a vote that's exactly right you don't need a vote at that point if the
[00:13:07] vote is just a rubber stamp then just get someone to stamp it and keep
[00:13:11] going exactly but they want people they want people to be accountable but they
[00:13:16] don't you know and that's a real problem because I take oaths very
[00:13:20] seriously and these people on these boards of elections they raise their
[00:13:24] right hand and they agree to abide by the terms of the Constitution of the
[00:13:28] United States of America and of the state of Georgia so when they are
[00:13:33] performing this ministerial act it really means something to them so
[00:13:38] Mike's rule change that's in progress now so he and I both got hours through I
[00:13:43] kind of felt like I broke the dam with you know that so that was good how
[00:13:49] long had it been since someone like you as citizen had a rule change passed
[00:13:53] by the State Board of Elections in Georgia since before 2020 is what I was
[00:13:58] told okay so in the last several years there hasn't been someone who's
[00:14:03] proposed a meaningful change and so and that's another rule change that was
[00:14:09] proposed is defining what meaningful observation is so that's one that's on
[00:14:14] the horizon too and so all of these things are very important because what
[00:14:20] people don't understand is that the legislature meets 40 days a year in the
[00:14:24] first quarter of the year but the State Board of Elections meets all
[00:14:29] year round and we have a better chance of having meaningful rules changes done
[00:14:34] and it was kind of funny during the meeting that one of the board members
[00:14:41] said well I'm not so sure that the legislature wants us to do this and I
[00:14:45] looked around and said is there anyone from the legislature here there
[00:14:49] was no one there and I said well if if they were that worried about it I
[00:14:52] think they would have someone here you're given this authority under this
[00:14:56] legislation and you need to act on it you need to be bold and so it was kind of
[00:15:02] chancy but it worked out. It's not bold but what you were suggesting isn't
[00:15:06] bold and defining certification isn't bold or they need to just be honest
[00:15:13] and say we don't really mean anything when we say certification I
[00:15:16] mean it should be one way or the other. It should be but for some
[00:15:21] reason there seems to be a real fear that they're going to overstep their
[00:15:26] authority but it's very clear in the code section the State Board of
[00:15:29] Elections does have the authority and it says to promulgate rules and
[00:15:34] regulations. I don't know how to explain it any clearer to them right
[00:15:38] but they do have the power they do have the authority they are a board
[00:15:43] and we need to use them effectively. Okay by the way regarding certification
[00:15:52] I'm pretty certain I might be wrong I'm pretty sure that someone in Arizona
[00:15:57] wound up getting arrested for not certifying because she was concerned
[00:16:03] that it wasn't right and so they they went after her so the threat for
[00:16:09] being sued is different than arrest but or indictment I don't know which it was
[00:16:15] but the point is those are real threats that they need to clarify it's it and
[00:16:22] it's creating problems not just in Georgia but around the country. You're
[00:16:27] just an average citizen and you wrote this rule how did you decide what
[00:16:32] to do? What was your process so other people who are listening can feel
[00:16:36] empowered as a citizen? That's a very important point Jenny Beth is that
[00:16:42] citizens do have to step forward to do this. For far too long we have sat on
[00:16:48] the sidelines and let other people do it and that is where we made the
[00:16:52] mistake. Just because we have elected representatives doesn't mean that they
[00:16:56] always know I also said at the election board meeting is that if
[00:17:01] legislators are going to be making these rules they all need to actually
[00:17:05] go be a poll watcher or they need to go be a poll worker and they need to
[00:17:09] understand the rules and regulations that they are they are setting these
[00:17:13] laws they need to understand what that means and so the first thing I did
[00:17:19] was to review the code section if there's a problem you need to look at
[00:17:24] the code section in the official code of Georgia annotated understand what
[00:17:27] the law means and then understand how what needs to change fits into
[00:17:32] existing law and with the rule changes it is when you see the gaps just
[00:17:40] understand you have to work the process to begin with and you have to
[00:17:44] understand what all of these terms mean and it is a fairly complicated
[00:17:47] system I mean it's I did an open records request one time wanting to
[00:17:53] know all of the different softwares and the different hardware that is
[00:17:57] used in an election system and my local Board of Election couldn't even
[00:18:01] tell me and I think that it's not exactly what we're talking about I think
[00:18:09] that that is something that is so important for people to understand
[00:18:12] because they get caught up on certain software vendors right hardware
[00:18:17] vendors what they don't realize is that there are multiple software
[00:18:22] systems and in 2022 there supposedly was a routine server update that
[00:18:28] caused the voter roll system that a pole pad system to slow down
[00:18:35] statewide where they weren't even able to use it and they were writing or
[00:18:39] looking on the internet through the my voter system with your driver's
[00:18:43] license rather than then the actual pole pads that's right there's a lot
[00:18:50] of software and a lot of computer parts in involved that don't have
[00:18:54] anything to do with the names and the companies that other that people
[00:18:57] talk about a lot it's all process and that's why I appreciate the fact I
[00:19:01] have a manufacturing background so process is part of my daily thought
[00:19:06] of you know you take this step this and you look at writing procedure and
[00:19:11] that's what these rule changes are all about is that over time as our
[00:19:18] legislature has made changes in the rules they have made they have to
[00:19:24] conform the rules and regulations to the legislation that was passed and some of
[00:19:30] those processes you've got people doing that that like I said have never worked
[00:19:34] an election so they don't fully comprehend exactly how that needs to go
[00:19:39] right so people just need to read it and review it and you need to work
[00:19:45] an election go to the polls observe the polls be a poll watcher if
[00:19:51] possible get a seasonal position I mean right now and in Cobb County we need
[00:19:55] poll workers in in some of the precincts and you know I kind of go
[00:20:01] back to I did some research or tried to do some research early on into how
[00:20:07] the idea of precincts came about and how the idea of this being a process
[00:20:13] that your average American citizen should be involved in it was never
[00:20:17] meant to turn over to the government this was something that is truly by the
[00:20:22] people and for the people and the people need to be involved in it and we
[00:20:27] don't need to be comfortable just you know abdicating that process to someone
[00:20:31] else so I do encourage everyone to get involved and understand those
[00:20:36] processes and how the rules work and it's also Jenny Beth very important
[00:20:43] because sometimes people will see something and they'll call me and
[00:20:46] they'll say oh my gosh you'll never believe it I saw them do that and it's
[00:20:51] only because it's a process they don't understand right it can be perfectly
[00:20:55] normal but it seems out of place and so they'll ring the alarm bell and
[00:20:59] get upset about it but it's something that's actually a normal part of the
[00:21:03] process and I think everything that you just said is extraordinarily
[00:21:08] important and it it's if you want to you can complain we can sit there and
[00:21:15] go we don't I'm not saying that I see this but I for some reason in the last
[00:21:20] several days have heard over and over well we don't completely trust the
[00:21:23] election system we don't trust it okay you can complain about that all you
[00:21:27] want or you can roll up your sleeves and do something about it go look in
[00:21:30] the mirror and understand that if you're not stepping up to volunteer
[00:21:33] you're part of the problem that you're complaining about you're either
[00:21:36] part of the problem or you're part of the solution and in to be part of
[00:21:42] the solution it requires work it requires researching and understanding
[00:21:47] and being patient with the process and whether it's learning how to pass
[00:21:53] legislation and be involved in helping get Congress or your legislature to
[00:21:59] pass legislation that you want to see passed and understand you may not get
[00:22:03] everything but you can get something and maybe sometimes getting something
[00:22:07] isn't enough because I might break other things if you you don't fix
[00:22:10] enough of it it's understanding how to count the votes do you I don't mean the
[00:22:15] ballots but I mean from a whip count standpoint the legislative votes do
[00:22:20] you have the votes to pass the legislation that you want or not in
[00:22:24] your case understanding the election process and then going before a board
[00:22:28] and talking to them and working the process that is so so so important
[00:22:33] and I talked to a lot of people a lot of grassroots activists as you know
[00:22:38] and it's kind of like I can since 2020 everything changed like our whole world
[00:22:46] changed in 2020 yes with cove it's called the world broke yes the world
[00:22:50] broke I mean it's so broken it is still broken and we are learning how
[00:22:55] to adapt and change and how to improve things and how to fix it and
[00:23:01] one of the things that I tell people is it's like the five stages of grief
[00:23:07] and I came into the the party the Republican Party in 2020 elected in 2021
[00:23:14] so I was kind of the first wave of the new people and now there's another
[00:23:20] wave of the new people and they're in the stage of anger and that and this
[00:23:27] is not just reflective of our community but across the country and
[00:23:32] it's great that we have more people involved but learning from the people
[00:23:36] behind you is so very important I'm still angry too but you have to turn
[00:23:41] that anger into action that is meaningful you can't just be angry at
[00:23:46] the world you have to roll up your sleeves educate yourself and be
[00:23:51] willing to do the work and so that's why I felt like this rule change was
[00:23:56] a very good way to go about it because I don't have to wait on the
[00:23:58] legislature you can look at it understand the rules and say okay the
[00:24:02] process is broken what can we do to fix it and it was kind of funny I talked
[00:24:09] to somebody after the meeting and one of the guys said man you just did a
[00:24:13] great job handling them and I'm like you have to relate to people and one
[00:24:19] of the things is we forget the humanity of what we're doing we forget
[00:24:23] that these people first of all the people on the state election board
[00:24:26] they're all volunteers every single one of them I'm a volunteer none of us got
[00:24:31] paid to do any of this they don't get paid for what they do we actually pay
[00:24:36] money to get the grief you know it's kind of in the county election boards
[00:24:40] in Georgia it's the same right their volunteers or the money that they're
[00:24:43] getting is so many school I mean our election board people unless you're
[00:24:47] the chair you get $200 a month to be on the local election board and if
[00:24:53] you're the chair you get $300 a month $2,400 or $3,600 a year probably doesn't
[00:24:59] even doesn't pay for your gas really yeah I mean if you really want to know
[00:25:03] what's going on and you drive around to all the polls we have you know
[00:25:07] 146 polls in Cobb County alone so if you want to go around and see
[00:25:11] what's going on that's that's you're gonna eat it up and gas right
[00:25:14] so at any rate I do try to understand that these people they're
[00:25:21] people they just might not be where we are yet right sometimes and even what
[00:25:29] you just said about remembering the humanity I think that's really important
[00:25:33] also even for the paid employees and for the elected officials like we can
[00:25:38] rail and be angry and have righteous indignation and take it to the streets
[00:25:43] and like protest with signs and picketing and legally protesting I
[00:25:48] don't mean occupations right and riots you can do all of that when you walk
[00:25:56] into the government building and you're trying to affect change or trying to
[00:26:01] research what's going on you have to understand you're walking into a
[00:26:04] business and you wouldn't want someone walking into the business where
[00:26:08] you work screaming and yelling and and you you have to treat them the
[00:26:12] way you want to be treated and remember even if they're employees and
[00:26:16] you're frustrated maybe with the outcome of their job there's still people and
[00:26:20] you have to treat them that way and not just people they're your neighbor
[00:26:24] and that's that's the big thing and that's why I love the secure-and-win
[00:26:29] strategy and why I love what you're doing with Tea Party Patriots is
[00:26:33] because it brings back the sense of community and you know we used to be
[00:26:39] a community where you have a new neighbor you bake a cake and you go
[00:26:42] meet them you know or you go by and you say you know I noticed you
[00:26:46] haven't had time to cut your grass can I cut your grass for you those are all
[00:26:50] things that that build into what we should be doing as communities and now
[00:26:56] we live very isolated lives because when we go home we're on the internet
[00:27:01] or where you know everybody's doing what they and especially in the the
[00:27:05] economy that we're living in everybody is doing the best that they
[00:27:09] can do to get by and the humanity part of it in my view is very very
[00:27:14] important we feel like we were robbed of something in 2020 we were robbed of our
[00:27:20] voice and I was remarking to a friend on the way here this evening and said
[00:27:25] you know I used to go to Jim Miller Park and do live videos all the time
[00:27:28] I'm saying you know in that building was our sacred vote and it was just
[00:27:34] so amazing to me that our choice and our elected officials because
[00:27:38] that's a huge responsibility that was taken away from us and it was treated
[00:27:45] with disregard so you know when you do have that anger you have to turn that
[00:27:50] into positive action right you cannot just let it sit there and fester and
[00:27:54] I'm thankful that we have an election board that we can present these rules
[00:27:59] to and we can help make it better and that's something that can happen
[00:28:03] pretty quick well I'm really proud of the work that you did and I hope
[00:28:07] the people listening to this are inspired to take action themselves and
[00:28:11] if they're in Georgia understand that the drop boxes are going to be more
[00:28:15] secure in November than they were previously absolutely absolutely well
[00:28:19] thank you so much for joining me today Sally thanks for having me the
[00:28:23] Jenny Beth show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin produced by Kevin
[00:28:28] Munihan and directed by Luke Livingston the Jenny Beth show is a
[00:28:33] production of Tea Party Patriots action for more information visit Tea Party
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