Surviving Communism: If America Goes Socialist, the World Is Finished | Panel

[00:00:00] Every person on our panel today chose America after they had seen the alternative up close. I asked them what they were choosing. Welcome to The Jenny Beth Show. I'm Jenny Beth Martin, and this is our Surviving Communism series. Welcome to The Jenny Beth Show.

[00:00:30] I sat down with people from five countries who know what communism actually does. Today, we will learn more about what happened to them in communist countries, to their families, their food, their churches, and their futures.

[00:00:42] This is the last episode and our panel conversations on surviving communism, but not the last of our Surviving Communism series. If you have your own surviving communism story that you want to share, please shoot me an email at Jenny.beth at tpartypatriots.org. Again, Jenny.beth at tpartypatriots.org.

[00:01:08] We want to continue to hear from you and to let our audience know about people who have survived communism and who are standing against socialism, Marxism, and communism in America today. Those of you who are standing for liberty and against what the democratic socialists of America are trying to sell.

[00:01:28] In today's episode, I asked the panelists why they came to America and what it was about America that makes it so unique and worth saving. We talk about President Reagan and not the way Americans usually talk about him. Dr. Yuri Yarim-Agaev briefed President Reagan before he met Gorbachev.

[00:01:50] And some of the people in this room were inside those countries when an American president stood up and said communism was illegitimate. I wanted to know what it sounded like from the inside of those countries when an American president was standing up against their system. And then I asked him the question that we've been building toward for the entire series.

[00:02:14] If America stops being the country that holds the line, if we stop cherishing liberty and basic human rights like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, does the world go dark? Is there a back out? And at the end, I asked every one of them what they would say to a 20-year-old today who is registered to vote, who likes what the socialists are saying, and thinks that the panel is exaggerating.

[00:02:42] Our communism survivors are Sasha Gong from China, Dr. Yuri Yurimagaev from the Soviet Union, Agnes Gibboney from Hungary, Ovidiu Frusina from Romania, Manuela Callini, also from Romania, Captain Onofre Gutierrez from Nicaragua. And now, here's our panel.

[00:03:10] I want to show a quick clip. And when we finish with it, get a very, very fast reaction. Is democratic socialism compatible with capitalism? In the long term, no. We're anti-capitalist. We want a world beyond capitalism. But in the short term, while we're within a capitalist economy, of course, we need firms that are profitable, that are providing employment, that are providing taxation.

[00:03:37] So I think to govern in the short term as social democrats, we need profitable firms. So that's from a New York Times podcast. And they're being very honest. They don't want capitalism. They want to get rid of capitalism. And we've gone through in the previous episodes and talked about how they don't want it. What I'd like to do now is show you another clip that is going to be a very familiar clip to all of you.

[00:04:03] General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization, come here to this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.

[00:04:33] President Reagan spread liberty and he stood up for liberty and he stood up against communism. And he had the goal of taking down the Soviet Union and he wanted to defeat the evil empire. And unfortunately, his predecessors didn't want to see it through the way to completely ending communism the way he envisioned.

[00:05:01] And people said it was impossible. And they mocked President Reagan and they made fun of him and they said all sorts of terrible things about him. And he worked on this and worked on it and worked on it. Yuri actually met with President Reagan the night before he was meeting with Gorbachev twice, right? Twice.

[00:05:23] Well, I met with him several times, but I was part of his briefing a day before he went to Reykjavik to meet Gorbachev there. And a day before he went to Moscow to meet Gorbachev in Moscow. So I knew President, I liked him, I agreed with most of his position. And I also knew many people of his administration.

[00:05:52] And I knew George Shultz well because we were together at Hoover Institute for many years. But I also knew young generation. I came, I was a lucky person. First I was exiled instead of imprisoned. But then I came to America just a few months before Reagan was elected.

[00:06:14] So my first eight years in America were during Reagan administration, which I worked very closely as independent person. But I befriended and knew well many young people in crucial position in his generation, which are about the same age as I was and who played a very important role.

[00:06:38] And who played, and I advised them, they seeked my advice on developing this strategy against the Soviet communism. And there were several critical things why Reagan succeeded. First, he identified the main enemy correctly. He followed a Kirkpatrick distinction between totalitarian and authoritarian society.

[00:07:06] And he focused on totalitarianism as the main enemy of America. And definitely the Soviet Union was a key totalitarian country. Second, he understood the crucial role of ideology. And I would say that maybe that's the only American president whom I know who really understood what ideology was.

[00:07:31] And he targeted this ideology. He understood that to win over communism, his policy was called peaceful offensive. But it wasn't peaceful with respect to ideology. He completely denied it. He considered that regime illegitimate.

[00:07:55] He actually called for regime change quite explicitly when he said that this is an evil empire and the place of communism is on the ash heap of history. It's direct definition of regime change. And he pursued this very effective battle of ideas.

[00:08:17] And one more thing, which directly relates to me, he supported dissidents very strongly inside the Soviet Union, considering it's a very important factor in dismantling communism. That was extremely successful strategy. The problem with it, it wasn't followed by George Herbert Bush. So there were two problems after Reagan left his office.

[00:08:47] First, that his successor, George Herbert Bush, didn't follow his steps. And instead of finishing this democratic revolution and eradicating communism and mainly communist ideology and do similar things to what was done in Germany in 1945,

[00:09:09] like kind of Nuremberg trial, denazification and illustration of officials, nothing of that kind was done in the Soviet Union. Instead, he actually supported to great extent all remaining communist structure. And so it was done by his followers. And as a result, in Russia, we got KGB officer as a president of Russian country. So it wasn't followed through.

[00:09:37] And the second, his great strategy of peaceful offensive was virtually forgotten. And instead of building on this success and trying to apply the same approach to China and other totalitarian countries, we tried to do some different things which didn't work in the past. So that's and I hope that we recall that success.

[00:10:06] We start to analyze and utilize a similar strategy again and which will help us to fight external totalitarianism and communism so successfully. President Reagan ultimately was successful in toppling your country, the Soviet Union and your country and your country. So he he was successful.

[00:10:34] Unfortunately, the successors didn't have the courage that he had or the intellectual understanding of the ideology to be able to continue doing what he was doing or the communication skills. Here, actually, I want to add a story. I talked to Len Valenza a few times and interviewed him. He told me this story.

[00:10:58] 1990, when Poland had its election, George Bush actually went to Poland. George Bush went to Lenza's apartment and had lunch and talked to him, did not like him, and turned around to support the communist leader. That they run daily. It was typical for George Bush. And if I knew Reagan and many of my dissident friends knew Reagan and met with him,

[00:11:26] and he actually seeked us advice, no one ever met George Bush. And the most infamous speech which he's made was called Chicken Kiev speech, if you remember. When he came to Kiev, when there was still the Soviet Union, which was ready to collapse and break into different countries.

[00:11:52] And he tries to persuade the leaders of Ukraine not to become an independent country. And the same he did with Yugoslavia. He tried to keep Yugoslavia together. So that was very counterproductive, mildly speaking. When Reagan came into office, you'd already left the country. Were you out of China by then? In 1980?

[00:12:21] Yeah, I was out of China. I was still in jail. In, you know, in Carter's time. And at the left. And so I came here in 87. And the Reagan speech was the first English speech I understood completely. I watched their newly arrived America, watched their cry like a baby. Where were you in the 80s? Here in United States. You were in America.

[00:12:51] And then you were still... We arrived in 1970. I was here in 1990, May 15. You came in the 70s? Yeah, I was in Washington, D.C. when that happened. And you were important. For you, being inside the middle of the communist state, what difference did America make?

[00:13:18] And I know that from day to day, you didn't know because you told me in the one-on-one interview that we did, and both of you did, two hours of television a night, and it was all the dictator. But America served a very important purpose, didn't it? And our liberty and championing for it made a difference. Well, absolutely. We did have actually access to a couple of radio channels that were prohibited by the government.

[00:13:48] One of them was called Radio Free Europe. And the other one was called Voice of America. So those two radio channels provided information that otherwise would not be available. However, I personally learned about a very unbelievable, how should I say, story, about the most 100 top influential people in the oil industry.

[00:14:14] And what I've learned from there is that the President Ronald Reagan devised this plan to really take Russia down. At the time I was reading this, what I've learned is that the Russian government needed to use approximately 20 to 25 percent of their national gross product to use it for the military purposes, for the Cold War and everything. In comparison, United States were using 5 to 6 percent.

[00:14:43] So what Ronald Reagan devised as a plan was to invest heavily in the Arab nations and extract the oil from there so cheap that the Russian government could not, could not no longer sell. That was the main source of the budget in Russia at the time.

[00:15:07] So basically by investing heavily in those countries, OPEC now countries, the Russians could not keep, compete with them. And basically it started the process. And President Gorbachev was one of the first to realize that the game is practically over. We won't be able to continue, sustain this fight like this, the way it is. And he decided to change the situation.

[00:15:36] So that helped Romania because once the Eastern European bloc countries started to fall like a domino effect, the only problem is I had one of the most ruthless dictators in power and he would not give up the power. Giving up the power is the most difficult thing for people that there are dictators. They will probably die. I don't know if there is a dictator that will say, OK, here is the power. I'm gone. Usually it's not happening like that.

[00:16:03] So, yes, we suffered a little bit more than other Eastern European bloc countries in that regards just because of Ceausescu. But, yes, thank to President Ronald Reagan for having the vision. And then things just fallen in place. And Romania has become free. I also say with the help of Russia at the time.

[00:16:30] It's a known effort that Russians decided Ceausescu was crazy. He has to be eliminated. But Romanians have become somewhat free at the time. And they took the life in their control. And they made the decisions to rewrite the Constitution and do better where they are today. They made improvements. But I wanted to just one second mention the little video, the first video that you mentioned.

[00:16:59] And my question for that gentleman that said that the systems are not compatible, then why are you doing it here? Go somewhere else and implement your system. Why do you want to take a system that's been working so beautiful for 250 years and you try to change it? Why do you have to do it in United States of America? And I think that what happens if America topples? What happens to the rest of the world?

[00:17:28] You all came here because America could be the place where you could seek freedom. And I think that some people in America today don't understand. We set the standard for liberty. And our liberty isn't perfect. What happened during COVID is horrible. The censorship that we've seen is awful.

[00:17:54] But we still do everything we can to go back to liberty time after time after time. What is good about America? And what happens—maybe it should be the other way around. What happens to the rest of the world if America no longer exists to defend freedom here and abroad? And what is good about America? I'll just quickly say the first video. They never mention what means they would use to take away people's property.

[00:18:23] And about America, I have to say I actually have two great-grandfathers who came here as railway workers. Later, they said my grandfather was sent to Colombia. And later, he went back to China, stupidly, to build a country as the founder of the legal system in that area. Anyway, so spent 20 years in jail.

[00:18:46] And I was—you know, when I was in jail for a year, you know, what—among the first questions my interrogators asked me, said, did you listen to enemy radio? I said, yeah, Voice of America. I said, of course I do. That's weird. But this country is dream.

[00:19:14] And I have to say, in that time, listening to Voice of America, all the information, as people can speak that freely. That's a dream. That was always my dream. Not go to jail. There are two things which are very important. I believe it's still the greatest country in the world. And its foundation is extremely solid. That's what is important.

[00:19:43] What I think was critical, two things actually. First, America shouldn't abandon its leadership of free and democratic world. It's absolutely critical for both other democratic countries and even more for totalitarian countries, which people there who strive for liberty. Unfortunately, there are such trends.

[00:20:11] And I see those trends on the left, definitely. But I see also those trends on the left. Right. And America's first movement, for example, is actually just about abandoning this leadership role. And second, America should always remember its fundamental values and principles.

[00:20:35] And those are human rights, political liberties, rule of law, democratic process, and free enterprise and free market. Now, again, that's very important. Because I see, again, if we talk about left, it's no question that they hate all those things and won't eliminate all of them.

[00:20:58] But even on the right now, I see the problem when first place is now occupied by family values instead of human rights and political liberties. And family values is not what—I don't have anything against family values. But family values is not what distinguishes us from totalitarian and other countries.

[00:21:27] I mean, in Hitler's Germany, we have strong family values. In Stalin's Russia, we have strong family values. In Iran, which we are fighting now, we have very strong family values. Family values don't make our country great. And even I wouldn't say that to put Christianity ahead of other things is also not right. The freedom of religion is more important than any particular religion.

[00:21:56] Again, I am supporting family values and in Christianity. But I think that we still should remember what are core values of our human rights, political liberties, rule of law. Democratic process and free enterprise and market. And personal freedom. Well, I say political liberties and human rights, it includes personal freedom.

[00:22:27] When we immigrated to the United States, we immigrated as stateless, meaning we didn't belong anywhere because Hungary took our citizenship away after my parents escaped. So on June 30th, 1983, when I became a naturalized citizen, it was the happiest day for me to know that I belong somewhere. And this is my country. This is my home.

[00:22:53] And the oath that I took that day to defend this country against foreign and domestic invaders, I hold very dear to my heart. And even at my age, I would be willing to fight on the front lines to save this country from what's coming ahead if we don't wake up.

[00:23:13] And I just want to plead to people watching this episode, this series, please do not let United States down. You have the best country in the world. If United States becomes a socialist country, the world is finished. United States is the only country that stands up tall and strong and helps everybody in the world. Please fight for your country.

[00:23:42] Give your heart and soul to this country as legal immigrants like myself do. Because we value our commitment and our love for this country. Please do not give up. Ruby. Well, I was born again at the age of 23. I made it to United States. I had to start life all over again.

[00:24:07] I've learned a new language, a new culture, and I've learned what freedom is. There is no country like this that provides the opportunities for somebody if they want to use them. The fact that I am simply standing here in front of you and be able to talk about all these things, it's something that most children today do not understand. Had I been living still in Romania, I couldn't talk against my government.

[00:24:36] In China, in Russia, I'm sure in Nicaragua. You say something against the government in power and you are pretty much gone. So I was allowed to restart my life and I was allowed to dream big. And it was up to me to do whatever I wanted to do. They don't understand the value of this thing.

[00:24:59] And to look at some quotes, to look at some ideas that have never been able to produce better than what America has done. It is unbelievably stressful. I, again, appreciate, I'll always be appreciative for being given a second chance. I have raised a wonderful family.

[00:25:24] My children were taught to think for themselves and to speak their mind when they need to and to dream big. And that is just because I live where I live today. Onofre? You and I live in the greatest country. There has never been. America is the best place.

[00:25:48] It's the place where you can put your mind to the goal and achieve it, fail, and start all over again. It's a God gift to all of us. And it's up to you, it's up to me to keep it going the way it is going now. We cannot allow ideologies that are destructive to come into your brain and tell you, vote this way because it's going to be better.

[00:26:17] We live in the land of opportunity. We live in the land that gives you self-governance. We live in the lands that give you freedom to move from L.A. to New York, Oregon to Florida. You can do whatever you want. So just stay focused on what you want to do. And believe me, I know that. We lost everything in Nicaragua. We have to start all over again. And we did. I retire. And I have to say, I retire as an airline pilot.

[00:26:47] Where else can you go and say, I don't have anything. I want to achieve my dream only in this country. Don't let it die. Keep it alive. Save and protect the Constitution. I know I live now in the greatest nation on Earth. And America for me symbolizes freedom and hope. The kind of hope that I was deprived of when I was a child.

[00:27:15] And America is the place where the people make the government and not the government makes the people. It's a place where I can have my voice heard and I can go tell my government, well, you know, this is not right. This is our Constitution. We have to follow it. And in other countries, like in the country where I come from back in the days, I would have been arrested or shot for simply that. So we have a lot of freedom today in America.

[00:27:44] And I want to make sure that it gets preserved. We have to fight for it peacefully. We have to let others know our stories, what communism is and how it opposes our freedom, how it opposes our Constitution. And fight for what we have because otherwise it's just going to be taken away. Okay.

[00:28:09] And the very last question to the 22-year-old who's watching, who thinks that what they've read about socialism, which we have established as totalitarianism and communism or totalitarian communism, is appealing to them. What is your message to the 22-year-old who is being seduced by the words we've seen from the democratic socialists rising in America? Sasha. Sasha. I want you to be free.

[00:28:39] I want you to think whatever your school never taught you. I want you to think. Otherwise, what happened? I want you to read. I want you to think. I want you to be a free person. I think our country, a free country, is created by free people. The free people think free and came here, created this free country and whatever, you know, they did not like.

[00:29:07] So now understand in school, lots of 20 years old, you are shaped by your teachers, your professors, and whatever the environment. So be free. To think otherwise, to understand more, that will also enrich you as well. Gary? Gary? Gary? Gary?

[00:29:44] Gary? Gary? Gary? Gary? Gary? Gary? Gary? Gary? Gary?

[00:30:20] Gary? Gary? Gary? Gary?

[00:30:49] Gary? Gary? Gary? is what direction you're going learn about communism learn about socialism learn what it is that you would lose what you would miss you're living in the best country in the world honor the country you were born with appreciate it like those of us who legally immigrated here

[00:31:13] and give your heart and soul for this country because if you lose your freedom we lose it all there is never going to be another country in the world as beautiful with so many opportunities as united states of america so appreciate what you have love it respect it like it's the last thing

[00:31:37] you're going to do because you want to give to your children to your grandchildren the country that i saw when we first immigrated here a country of freedom of protection you can do anything you want to in socialism you won't be able to so fight for your country love and respect it at least half

[00:31:58] of what i respect and love it i'm going to say hi to you and i'm going to use a line from a movie show me the money show me what they say to you it's true show me where they were able to accomplish these things not on television not in the movies take it from people that lived under socialism and communist regimes

[00:32:28] it's not a good system do not take anything you have for granted and keep thinking for yourself enough free you are at a very vulnerable age in life you're either graduating from college or

[00:32:51] graduating from vocational school and you're going into the workforce or something that you will do with your life and they're selling you a false reality that everything is going to be free that you're going to own everything that you're going to have free housing that you're going to have free health care free busing

[00:33:11] free daycare it is not true i ask you to question and don't let peer pressure push it back to them to the mentality that they're telling you it's a huge lie they tell you that you are equal yes you will be equally poor so please question everything don't be afraid you live in the greatest country you have to

[00:33:38] make sure that it stays the same way they want to destroy it we want to give you prosperity that's what this country stands for prosperity capitalism is not a sin it's the best thing that can happen to you so just keep on having faith and manuela well the road to hell is paved with good intentions so i would strongly encourage you to start asking questions and see what are you being promised

[00:34:07] when i was in college my first economics lesson was there's no such thing as free food well there's no such thing as free housing as um redistribution of of health and of wealth there's it's utopic um so i would suggest that you start asking questions show up to meetings that your your city council

[00:34:33] meetings to um county meetings and um and see what what are they trying to push uh even in legislative sessions uh when they're discussing bills see how is this bill going to affect me how is it going to affect my community my my paycheck um be be vigilant uh and fight for freedom fight for for our country and that is

[00:35:01] you know we we have a republic if we can keep it if we fight for it uh and that starts with making informed decisions being informed and uh showing up you know thank you so much for being here today thank you for sharing your stories and thank you for coming to america and continuing to stand for liberty and to make sure that we can be a beacon of hope to other people around the rest of the world and that we can continue to do this for our own children and grandchildren

[00:35:32] that's the end of our panel discussion but it is not the end of this surviving communism series if you survive communism shoot me an email and tell me about your story we're looking to continue doing interviews like this next year because we think that we've got to continue warning people about the dangers of socialism marxism and communism and to urge all of our americans to stand up for liberty

[00:35:59] and to remind them why liberty is so important and worth cherishing every one of these seven on the panel sat down with me alone as well and those conversations go deeper than we're able to do with all of them in a panel discussion so be sure to check out those interviews as well before we close we hope that you will share this episode and in all of the episodes in this surviving communism series with your family

[00:36:27] and friends so they understand the unintended real life consequences of socialism and communism and please be sure to vote for liberty and our constitutional system and against communism vote for common sense this election to help us get out the vote go to i will save america.com i'm jenny beth martin and this is a The Jenny Beth Show surviving communism series

[00:36:54] if you enjoyed today's conversation go ahead and hit like and subscribe it really helps us reach more people who care about liberty and the constitution you can find this and other episodes at jenny best show.com as well as facebook youtube rumble instagram x and your favorite podcast platform the jenny beth show is hosted by jenny beth martin the jenny beth show is a production of tea party patriots action

[00:37:20] for more information visit tea party patriots.org you you