GOD'S VELVET HAMMER: 30 Years on the Front Lines of the Fight for Life | Sandy Rios

[00:00:14] Welcome to The Jenny Beth Show. My guest today is Sandy Rios. She's a political commentator, author, and podcast host. Sandy has spent decades on the front lines of the cultural and political battles that matter most to social conservatives, from the fight to protect unborn life to the defense of religious liberty to pushing back on the media and a government that have tried and failed to silence voices like her. Her book, God's Velvet Hammer, is exactly the kind of battle manual this has been made to the world.

[00:00:44] This movement needs right now. I'm Jenny Beth Martin. Welcome to The Jenny Beth Show. Sandy Rios, it's wonderful to have you on the show. Sandy Rios It's my pleasure, Jenny Beth Martin. So give my audience a little bit of the details on your background. You have a very interesting background about what you've been doing in the conservative movement for a very long time. That would be a long answer, but I will try. I started, I got involved in the pro-life movement when I lived in Berlin, Germany.

[00:01:14] I used to be a professional singer. And I got involved in the pro-life movement, but it was after in Berlin I was looking for the paper. And I opened a drawer and there were pamphlets of dismembered babies. And I'd never heard of abortion, Jenny Beth. I didn't even know what it was. That's how long ago it was. This was 1973. And when I saw those pictures, it was like a knife in my heart. I never forgot it. I always say it's like a man looking at a piece of pornography.

[00:01:41] Maybe his first one. That image never leaves him. And I think that's what it was for me. So I went back to the States and this is going to be all convoluted, but I became a professional singer eventually. And that's what I did for many years. I recorded three albums. And in the process of that, I was invited to fill in on a radio program. And I thought they were crazy.

[00:02:06] I told them, I am from Southern Illinois. I don't speak well. You don't want me to do that. And no, it is in Chicago. Oh, no. Yes, we do. So I filled in and then it was funny because people said, oh, you're great. And I thought, what are you talking about? I'm just answering questions or talking. But anyway, that developed over the long term into full-time radio at a different station, Drive Time in Chicago, Illinois.

[00:02:33] And we did very well, won a lot of awards and just kind of mixed things up down there, maybe got a governor kicked out of the state and a lot of other little things like that, which you'd know about. I got really involved in just a lot of issues, as you can imagine, when you were on radio and I did, you know, five times a day, three hours a day. That's kind of like a PhD in the issues. And so I grew up, grew up fast on what was going on. And I interviewed a lot of people from all over the country.

[00:03:04] And so one day I got the real details of this are fun, but I was driving to work at my station, WYLL. And I had a lot of things on my mind and maybe a few troubles at work. And my phone rang and it was a guy from Domain Communications, which doesn't mean anything except I knew Domain. I'd worked for them, done voice work and all kinds of things for them through the years. And they said, Beverly LaHaye does a radio show.

[00:03:35] Well, I knew that. I was, sorry, I was their voice. Like I would say, this is Concerned Women for America. You're listening to that kind of thing. That's what I did. But not content. And so Beverly's going to be gone for the summer. Can you fill in for her? And I said, well, I don't know. I have quite a load. But anyway, then he said, oh, and by the way, would you like to be president of Concerned Women for America? So it was just stunning. And it's a long story how that happened.

[00:04:05] I had a severely disabled daughter. So we had to make arrangements for her to be placed. And I had a son who was at Wheaton College. And when I told him about this, he said, Mom, if God's called you to do this, you have to do it. So on my way to D.C., I was in North Korea because I was on one of the many overseas trips that I was taking during that time. And I was in North Korea during 9-11.

[00:04:30] And it was so traumatic, Jenny Beth, because we didn't know about it. We were in North Korea on the 12th, through the 12th of September. We came back to Tumon River across this security, highly secured place. A restaurateur told us in northern Manchuria about what had happened. So there's a lot more to that story. But I was supposed to be in D.C. in two weeks.

[00:04:59] And I did find myself wondering, will there even, is this World War III? And will there be public policy and Concerned Women for America? But, of course, we know what happened. And I did go. I came just a few days, you know, not long. The embers were still smoldering at the Pentagon. And anyway, to make it simple for you and for your listeners, I ended up, I was at CWA for about three years. I went back to Chicago. They asked me to get back on radio, which I didn't want to do.

[00:05:28] I didn't want to do that. I'd been there, done that. But I went back because they kept asking me. And I needed a job. So then I did another long stint and had a really actually wonderful time, the second time around, on radio. And then we went back to D.C. And I'll just tell this last story. Then I'm going to be quiet. I was working for Fox as a contributor. For about seven years, I did that. And I was doing a show with Bill O'Reilly. And you and I both know how Bill O'Reilly is.

[00:05:58] I worked with him a long time. And, of course, you know, he can be ornery, shall we say. And the topic was Ellen DeGeneres being the spokesperson for JCPenney. What did I think of that? Well, and he warned me, don't you say anything bad about, you know, don't you say anything bad. I said, Bill, I'm just here to tell you what I think about it. I'm not going to disparage or destroy her or be, hey, what do you think I'm going to do? So he made me a little angry.

[00:06:28] And when we started the segment, every time I started to say something, Bill would interrupt me. You know how he is. So he didn't allow me to say anything significant. And I had some significant things to say. The distinction was that she was a homosexual activist at that time. She wasn't just gay. If she had just been gay, I wouldn't have had that much of a problem with it. But she was an advocate of gay marriage and all of that. But I didn't get to say that to Bill O'Reilly.

[00:06:57] So I almost, when I got back in the car, I was so upset. And I told my husband, I just don't think I'm, if I can't say something meaningful, why am I doing this? And the next morning I got a call from American Family Radio and they said, would you like to do our morning show? I said, no, I wouldn't. I don't want to get up in the early morning like that. But my husband said, oh, you have to get back on radio. You have to get back. So I took the job. I was with him for 10 years and I just quit about that.

[00:07:27] I just stepped away. I'm still with AFA. I do a podcast now called Sandy Reels 24-7. So that's the short of it. It's a much longer story, Jenny Beth, but that's it. Sandy, you have quite an impressive resume and you've done a lot for the conservative movement by being a voice for the conservative movement. Before we talk more about that, explain to me, what were you doing singing? You mentioned that at the very beginning. Well, I was a professional singer. I made three albums and traveled all over the country.

[00:07:57] I did contemporary Christian music. I sang for the Chicago Bears. I sang for the U.S. Army Band in Berlin, Germany. I lived there. And I did a three-week concert tour in Japan. I did 29 concerts in 31 days, which was amazing. And yeah, my message there was very interesting because most of my audiences, not all, but most of them were Christians. And I would talk about, just encourage them in their faith.

[00:08:27] Some people weren't believers, but I tried to tell them why it was a really good thing to accept Christ. And when I went to Japan, they weren't Christians. So I thought, Lord, what am I going to say to Japanese people that would connect with them? And then I realized, I discovered through a number of things, that they were embarrassed by their disabled children. And they would not take them out. That's really common. I saw that in Russia, too.

[00:08:54] But so I had a severely disabled child who functioned like an infant. She had to be fed and bathed and everything. I took care of her for 20 years. So combine that with the notion that a Japanese have of shame. If they have failing grades, if they get fired from a job, anything that brings disgrace to them is shame. Sometimes they kill themselves over shame.

[00:09:21] And the thing about it is, there's no remedy for that shame. So I talked to them about shame. And I said, Jesus came to take away your shame. And then they started bringing their disabled children, Jenny Beth. I never saw that coming. And then they want me to come talk to them about just practical issues about how to care for a disabled child as though I was an expert. I was an expert on my child. But it was an amazing thing. But I had quite the career singing.

[00:09:50] That was great. That is pretty amazing, Sandy. And what a fun career to have to be able to sing and to share God's word through your voice. I do not have that talent, not with singing. So I think that's pretty amazing. Can I add one more thing? Yeah. I used to do rock and roll. That's what I wanted to do. I'd dance and sing and I had a band.

[00:10:18] But I had a real spiritual renewal when I went to Berlin, Germany. And the last time I was invited to sing in a nightclub with a guy. I forgot what we're singing, something. And I just thought, I can't do this. And I was invited. Some guy was going to take me to New York and make me famous. And then he wanted to take me home. And I knew what that meant. And I said, Lord, that's not the kind of life I want. I don't want that life. I love to sing, but I don't want that life.

[00:10:47] And then God brought out of that all of these musical, beautiful singing opportunities, which is a whole story in itself. So that's my singing career. That is pretty amazing. And I'm glad you stood up for your values and did what you knew to be the right thing to do. And look at the amazing life that you've had. So you've had a very good life and God made that path clear for you.

[00:11:14] Sandy, when you were talking just a second ago about the first time that you saw photos from an abortion, did you already have your daughter then? I can only imagine if you had a child who is disabled, seeing photos of an abortion would hit a mom a different way. No, I hadn't. No, I hadn't had any children at all. I was just 21 years old and had just gotten married and my husband was sent to Berlin.

[00:11:44] So, and you know, Jenny Beth, I'm probably older than you are, but I, when I was growing up, we couldn't even say the word abortion. It was like a curse word. People didn't say that. They didn't say pregnant either for that matter. Isn't that funny? Not so funny about abortion. We just knew it was terrible, but we didn't really know what it involved. And no one I knew ever talked about it. It was just a thing that was in the culture somewhere.

[00:12:12] And so that was a shocking thing to me. And I didn't know anything about the Supreme. I was not into politics. I was a young girl and I just graduated from college. And when I saw that, I mean, I'd always absolutely adored babies, absolutely adored them. So I babysat so much. I just, I still do. I still love babies. And so when I saw that, it was just like a knife in my heart. Yeah.

[00:12:37] So of course, when I had Sasha, there's just all kinds of things that it actually, when I would then sing and then later speak at Pro-Life Functions, having Sasha gave me an opportunity to talk about the value of life, no matter what form it takes. And what Sasha had taught me, the important lessons I could not have learned from a normally functioning child.

[00:13:05] So it was a different way to talk about Pro-Life. But she was very dear and she had an impact. One time, Jenny Beth, one time, Jenny, do you know who Johnny Erickson Tata is? I do. I do. Okay. Johnny is a quadriplegic who had a diving accident when she was 19. She's the same age as I am, as a matter of fact. And she, her story is incredible. There's a movie and her book.

[00:13:35] She was desperate. She was so upset. She was a horse woman. She sang. She was very active athletically. And this is like the end of her life. But it wasn't. And she went on to, by God's grace, to blossom. She painted with her teeth. She still made recordings. She, you know, now she travels the world. She has audiences with the president. She's an amazing woman because she has a great amount of intellect.

[00:14:03] Well, she came to my hometown, which at the time was Wheaton, Illinois. And I knew her. And she asked me if I would bring Sasha, that's my daughter, to sing at this conference on the church and the disabled. The audience is filled with disabled people, different functions, all kinds. And so I said, Johnny, I'll do that. And I brought Sasha up on the stage. And she was under good circumstances. She wouldn't, she can't sit up independently. So I put her in my lap.

[00:14:33] And she, it's not, it's hard. I would never, ever do that for a normal audience. Never. But I sang a song I had written for her called Sasha's Song. And I actually cried my way through most of it. I'm sure. But that audience, that was perfect for them. That's the most, one of the most beautiful moments of my life. And I hardly sang what I was supposed to be singing. But it had tremendous impact on them and encouraged them.

[00:15:02] But again, I would never do that for a normal audience. That would just be too much. Well, and I understand why that would be too much. But in that audience, she was there to speak to moms like you and to people like your daughter. And you were part of the audience as much as being on the stage. I read Johnny's book, well, at least a version of her book when I was in sixth grade.

[00:15:27] So she, she's older than, old enough, older than me enough that she had a book out that I read about her accident and her resilience when I was in sixth grade. But I'm pretty old. So it just, so I've never met her. But what a tremendous life that she's had. And it's pretty incredible you were able to share a stage with her like that with your daughter.

[00:15:57] She's actually still singing and traveling all over the world and speaking and writing. And she has a radio show. She's, she is just an incredible woman. She, she ended up getting married late in life to a football coach. And her story is amazing. She's still a good friend. So, but yeah. Well, she just, she has an inspirational story. So I'm glad that she's out there still singing and, and still speaking.

[00:16:26] And, and, and I've seen videos of, of the art that she has done as she's doing art. And I, I think that you're right. It just shows that, that the gift of life continues even in the most unexpected ways. And even when our life takes turns that we never imagined that it would take. Absolutely. God has a way of turning beauty into ashes into beauty. And the Bible says that. And certainly I've experienced that. And Johnny has experienced that.

[00:16:55] I mean, I've never been a friend to anyone who had more spiritual depth in my life. She used to call me and we'd sing hymns together. But she, she, I mean, I was struggling with my daughter. That was a hard patch and a long patch. And she had a longer patch and it was her body that wouldn't function. And so, but she just was amazing in her faith. Her, she was amazing. She encouraged me so much. So one time I'll tell you a funny story.

[00:17:22] We were singing together in Pennsylvania at one of her camps. And we were on the stage together. She was in her wheelchair and I'm standing there. And I get very dramatic with my song. I lift my arms up and go like that. And I hit the stick on her wheelchair. And we're on a stage that's up on a riser. And she, but thank goodness. I mean, she jerked like that. I just, and then we're in the middle of a song. But the, it automatically stopped, you know. So thank God for that.

[00:17:51] But that is a funny story now. Wasn't funny. Yeah. Yeah. But the, it, it's good that you could laugh about it. It scared you to death in the moment, but it's, it's pretty funny now. The, the comments that you just made about the first time that you saw photos from an abortion. The first time that I saw it, I w I was pretty young.

[00:18:18] I was in eighth grade and I went to a Christian school for, for one year during my K through 12. It's well, I guess in kindergarten too. So from my first grade to my 12th grade year, I was in a private school at a Christian school for one year. That was in eighth grade. And in my health class, they showed what an abortion looked, they didn't show what an abortion looked like, but they showed babies after an, an abortion.

[00:18:45] And I have a brother, my youngest, I have two brothers and a sister, but my youngest brother was just a baby at the time. He's 13 school years younger than me, 12 actual years, but 13 school years. And when I saw those images of these little babies, all I could see was my brother who I was taking care of and, and helping as a big sister. And it just was, was awful to see.

[00:19:14] And I've been pro-life since the moment I saw those, those images as well. And it, it, it wasn't, it wasn't as graphic as things that I've seen since then, but I think that what you were just saying, a lot of people don't actually understand what is, what an abortion is. They just hear the word and they don't even think about, about the aftermath and, and the actual incident that occurs with it.

[00:19:42] And that isn't exactly the direction I was planning to, to take the interview. But when you mentioned that, it's just something that, that I thought of. It, it, it makes a difference to, to understand what, what that word actually means. You know, Jenny, Beth, that reminds me, I interviewed Dr. Anthony Levatino. Do you remember him or have you heard his name? He was a doctor in Albuquerque or Las Cruces, New Mexico. And he was an abortion doctor.

[00:20:09] He'd performed thousands and that was fine with him. Didn't bother him at all until they had one child, he and his wife. They were eating dinner and suddenly they heard a noise outside in the front of their house. It was a screeching of tires and a car had run over his daughter. And as her body was just crushed.

[00:20:31] And as he looked down at her body, what came over him was, it reminded him of the babies he had aborted. And for him, it was a, a total life change. For the first time, he'd been doing this all these years. And then he realized this is backwards. It's a life, somebody he knew. And then she gets crushed in the same way. And it just, it was such a dramatic moment. And so I'll never forget him talking to me about that.

[00:20:59] He's still out there talking about his experience. But anyway, it does, the picture sites, why Joe Scheidler of Pro-Life Action League used to have those graphic posters that he would stay, they'd stand on the streets and show. And it's, people hated it. But it, you know, a picture speaks more than words, as we both know. Yeah, it does.

[00:21:21] And I know that some of the, the pro-life groups, I think Students for Life and I think Lila Rose's group, both have found ways to show, like Lila Rose, I think she has videos that show what is happening with the baby's development in utero and really humanizes the baby while the woman is pregnant.

[00:21:47] And I think that there are ways to explain what abortion is in a way that hopefully pulls at the heartstrings. And I think that they've found, they've found effective ways to be able to do that. I think you're right. I have a pre-born, you may have heard of pre-born, they sponsor my podcast. And this is a little different, but I love what they do with, it's like a pregnancy center, but it's not.

[00:22:17] They give ultrasounds to the women that are pregnant and want to terminate their babies. And when they see their baby sucking the thumb, moving around, kicking, you know, and they see if it's a girl or a boy, almost, I can't say, I think it's like 80% decide not to, to have their babies destroyed. And I think that's a very redemptive way, a beautiful way of persuading moms. That's different than the general public, but it just reminded me of that.

[00:22:47] And I think, too, the thing that is just terrible now is the, I always call it RU-486, but it's not that. It was the French abortion pill when it first came out. And I was on the television a lot. I was at CWA then trying to stop it from being approved. And, Jenny Beth, people don't understand. They think it's just a pill. Like you take a pill for a headache. You take a pill and they don't understand. It's actually two pills. The first pill kills the baby.

[00:23:16] The second pill forces it to come out, begins the contractions and the birth. And girls, little girls, young girls are doing this at home without, you don't have to have doctor's supervision. They're giving birth in their toilets at various stages. We don't, I'm not sure in some states if there are even all that many restrictions on how old the baby has, or how young it has to be, how old it has to be in your womb before you can do that. I don't think they're very careful about that.

[00:23:45] And I don't think people realize what trauma it is. And certainly our news media is not covering the stories of women that are injured in that process because there are many, many of them, the bleeding and all of that. So this is a new place where we are, Jenny Beth, where to me it's even worse. And one more thing about that, to me it's worth, it's bad enough when a mother, there's something bad in her heart, something terribly wrong.

[00:24:12] I believe God, there's nothing God can't forgive. I want to make sure I say that. He can wipe it away, all your sin. But there's something dark in your heart when you make a choice to take your own baby's life. And I think that when you can persuade a woman that it's better for her and better for the baby, which is what pre-born does. They talk to the women about, you know, redemption, about that there's a better way. And I think that's a beautiful way of approaching it.

[00:24:43] Yeah, I think that you are right. That is a very beautiful way of approaching it. I heard Carrie Lake say something that has stuck with me. I heard it back in 2024, I think. It may have been 2023. She said that one thing that she does when she's talking about abortion and the pro-life issues is that she points out to people that you can ask every mom that there is.

[00:25:13] And there are no moms who say, I regret having my child. And maybe there are some, I don't know, but I've never heard one. Everyone that I have heard always is so thankful that they have their child or their children. And they don't regret being a mother. But you cannot always say the same thing for the people who have chosen to abort their child.

[00:25:39] Oftentimes they wind up having regrets later and those regrets stay with them for the rest of their life. And you're right that when that happens, that God is still a redemptive God and forgives everyone. And we all sin and we all fall short.

[00:25:58] So I pray for those people, especially the ones who regret it and live with that and feel the consequences and the guilt of that. I think sometimes people don't realize till much later in life the regret doesn't come. I'll tell you something really interesting. When I was on the radio in Chicago, you know, with three hours, you do a lot of call-ins.

[00:26:23] So I thought, you know, every year during the week of January where we, the month, I'm not sure what we call it, National Day of Week of Life or Month of Life. That's not right, I know. But anyway, I thought I'll do something different.

[00:26:38] I will, I'm going to open up the phones and just ask if there are any men listening out there who had their girlfriend get an abortion, their wife, whoever, and if they have, you know, if it's affected them in any way. I thought I'd get a few calls, Nanny Beth. My phone lines in Chicago lit up like a Christmas tree. I think I did two hours. And I heard the most incredible stories.

[00:27:07] Men are never able to say a word. It's like they have no right to speak about the taking of the life of their baby. It's not just a mother's baby. Come on, where do we ever get to this? It's a, there's a couple involved here, a man and a woman. And so some of them cried. And they said every day, every day they live that the day the baby was born, the birthday of the child. They get so sad and so depressed and, and they have other children.

[00:27:36] But then look at those children and they realize what they did to that one child. And I heard, I heard some of these stories like that, Nanny Beth. I wish, I wish there could be more of that. Because honestly, I think I've learned this because it's scriptural, that the best way to reach people is just, again, encouraging them that there's a better way. Because what you said earlier, look, we, we all sin. We all do stuff. There's sexual sin in almost everybody's life of different stripes.

[00:28:06] And that's including homosexuality, transgenderism, whatever. You know, a lot of people think that they would never do this or that. But I happen to know that we are all capable of just about anything, including murder. And so God has saved some of us because we've known him since, I'd say that in my case, I came to Christ when I was nine. It was a wonderful conversion. And I know that has kept me from a lot of stuff that I know I would have done.

[00:28:34] But he gave me a conscience and a sense of right and wrong and a knowledge of good and evil. And so when I talk to people about anything like that, I remember the day that the same-sex marriage, Obergefell, passed at the Supreme Court. I was there. And there were so, you know, it was very organized outside. There were gay men's chorus. There was just all, and conservatives had a lot of presence, but they weren't organized like the other side.

[00:29:02] And I remember just going out into that crowd among the gay men. And, you know, they said terrible things to me, but I didn't care because that's my stock in trade. I just say, you know, you know that God loves you and there's a better way. And it doesn't matter if it's legal. It doesn't make it right. There's things like that. God has a better way for you. He's got a better plan for you than this. So I do think that's the way to approach people.

[00:29:27] I think Christians have been charged with being harsh and forgiving, and that may be true. But I just don't think they understand their own heart if they're that way, really. So I understand mine. And, you know, I'm glad God forgave me. So there's that. Well, and the Lord's Prayer teaches us to, we ask God for forgiveness of our own sins, and we forgive those who sin against us.

[00:29:58] And that means that we have to, first, it acknowledges we are all sinful creatures. We're all sinful. And that we, when we're asking for our own sins to be forgiven, we also have to forgive others. We have to have a forgiving heart. And sometimes Christians fail in that, and that winds up being their sin because they aren't able to forgive when we're charged to do so.

[00:30:27] We all have our own things we're going to be held accountable for one day. But I think that the approach that you have is, that's the right way to approach it. God loves you. God wants the best for you. And he wants all of us to turn from our sinful ways and turn towards him.

[00:30:51] And when we do so, and I'm certainly not perfect, and I have my share of mistakes, I know that when I'm looking towards God and doing my best to discern his will and to try to follow in his example, my life is better for it. It doesn't mean bad things won't still happen to me because bad things happen. But even in the midst of really bad things happening, then I know God is with me and will help me get through those bad things.

[00:31:21] Just one thing, unless you want to keep talking about this, I just, my part, I just like to say in closing that part, everybody knows John 3.16 for the most part, But for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. But it goes on.

[00:31:41] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. And see, that's the mission. Jesus never really, remember the woman caught in adultery? He said, just, there's, you don't just go and sin no more. Just stop. You know, repent and stop. And that's what Christians have to do. That's our pattern. It's supposed to be redemptive, not condemnation, because like, who are we?

[00:32:12] Who are we to condemn? So. Sandy, that's a really good point. I want to talk more about a few other things about you specifically. But before we go to that, as we're on this particular topic of redemption and praying for those who have sinned against us, over the weekend, last weekend, we saw another attempted assassination of President Trump.

[00:32:39] And this is on the heels of Charlie Kirk having been assassinated last September. And we've seen a lot of violence from the left. And we turn on our social media feeds and we see the hateful rhetoric on the left. And you can just see in some of the posts that we see from particular individuals on the left, they are consumed with hate.

[00:33:09] The hate is in their heart. And I think it is very important for us to make sure that we are praying for those people, because I am praying and I have been praying that their hearts are softened and that they remember that we're all humans and that we live in the same country and we have to find a way to live with one another, even when we have political disagreements.

[00:33:37] And political disagreements don't make the other person your enemy. And they don't they don't make the other person less worthy of life than than you are. And I'm just wondering, what were your thoughts as you heard about the another assassination attempt of President Trump? And what have you been thinking in the weeks since then? Well, needless to say, I was terribly upset. You know, it happened Saturday night, didn't it?

[00:34:05] I was just going to bed because I had to get up early and I couldn't sleep. I turned the news on and listened to it while I was trying to sleep. And it was just very disturbing, Jenny Beth. It's just so wrong. It's so wrong. And I guess the one thing, you know, I don't think we should let people get away with things. My when I think of being kind or.

[00:34:30] Showing love or persuasion instead of condemnation, I'm not talking about just things. And I'm not talking about telling people that are in caught in terrible entangled sin that what they're doing is OK and just smile and hug them. I'm not that. I believe confrontation is very important when when it's your role to do that. And so I am upset. I'm angry. I get angry. And that's also not wrong. The Bible says be angry, but sin not.

[00:35:00] That means I don't take a gun up and go try to kill a person that just killed someone innocent. I don't have the right to do that. It has to happen through government. The justice that we long for has to happen to the government. We can't take the law into our own hands. We all see what's happening. And I think, Jenny Beth, I think. I'm sorry. My whole life is Bible centered. I worked for Fox a number of years. I can certainly talk about the news and all of that without giving a Bible verse. But I have one right now.

[00:35:29] I just think that the Bible says that in the last days there will be a grand delusion, a grand delusion. And I think that's what we're seeing. And it goes on to say that men will be lovers of themselves rather than lovers of God, lovers of pleasures. It just describes what we see in the streets. I'm disrespectful to parents. There's a whole list. And you see it in our streets. So a lot of this, I think, is supernatural.

[00:35:59] I think there has to be law and order. The hammer has to come down. The hammer has to come down by our government. And so otherwise, they're never going to stop. They're out of control. It's like a spoiled child, you know. Like when you have kids. I have kids, they start to get really naughty and then they get worse and worse and they start having these fits. Maybe that lasts in about two seconds in my house. But you have to get a hold of them and stop them. You have to say, that's too much. Stop.

[00:36:29] Punishment. A spanking on the, excuse me, I do believe in spanking. You know, a swat on the bottom or something. Because that's what, whatever that form that takes for the adults and young adults in our streets that look like crazy people with their bugged eyes and they're ridiculous. Untethered from reality statements. They need some discipline from someone. Maybe it's the parents of those people, you know, or an aunt or an uncle or something.

[00:36:58] And if they break the law, it has to be the government. And we've got to come down on them. We should have really cracked down on Minnesota. You know, they should have never been allowed to do what they did. And so, and of course, of all the other riots we think about in this last, since 2020, currently, there's just been terrible behavior on the part of a part of our country that has become godless. They have no sense of God, no sense of rules, law and order, decency, respect.

[00:37:28] There's a poison, poison in the air or a cancer, you might say. But I do think that scripturally speaking, it's a delusion. It's a grand delusion. Yeah, I think that you just made really good points. And we do need to see more discipline. And it would be better to come from the home and parents before it gets to the point where the government has to intervene and people are breaking the law. And it's no fun to discipline your child.

[00:37:55] I hated being what I call a mean mom. But I knew that I wasn't, I have a close relationship with my children now. They're adults. But when they were younger, I wasn't, I'm not supposed to be their friend. I'm supposed to be their mom. And it's a different role than being their friend. And I certainly never was supposed to be their best friend when my job had to be being the mom.

[00:38:23] And I think other parents sometimes either forget that or they're not doing it or maybe they're just still filled with hate also that they don't even see it in their own children. No, I think that's true. We have a couple of generations that have just gone off the track. But I'm thinking of a funny story. I could tell something about my son, but I'll tell something about myself. It might not surprise you, Jenny Beth, that when I was a teenager, I was a very mouthy teenager.

[00:38:49] And sometimes to my poor mother, who was really kind, really kind, I was such a smart aleck. And I remember once I was just bleh. And I remember even thinking to myself, where is that coming from? You know, it was like I couldn't control my own mouth. And my mother slapped me good right across the face. She slapped me, my gentle mother. And I started crying. And I said, oh, mother, thank you.

[00:39:18] Because I knew I was out of control. And she brought sanity to that moment. And I do think that's what we need in our culture. Some entity, like it has to be law enforcement now, it'll bring sanity. It will be better for them. They're spinning out of control. They've not had boundaries. And they're going crazy. It's making them crazy. Boundaries and rules bring sanity. They're not a jail.

[00:39:47] They're something that makes you sane. If you have no rules and no barriers, you do get crazy. I think of that with a lot of billionaires. Or we know when there's no restrictions, they have so much money. And they get crazy. Because we need boundaries of good judgment and morality. You feel you are free when you do that. You're bound by that garbage if you give in to all of it. It controls you. Those are very, very good points.

[00:40:16] We absolutely need to see that they have more boundaries. And I want this situation that we witnessed last weekend to help bring those boundaries back. And I'm not sure that we're going to see that right now. It just seems like the Democrat leadership doesn't want to give boundaries to their base. And as long as they continue to ratchet up, they just keep doing it.

[00:40:44] They just keep upping the ante with the rhetoric. And the more they do that, I think the worse it is going to be for society. And I'm prayful that that changes. And in the meantime, I continue to stand and fight for the values that make this country great. And not allow their intimidation tactics to actually intimidate. And I think that's what we all have to do. I think so too, Jenny Beth.

[00:41:14] And they want us to cower. And we can't. You can't blink. That's one thing I learned in D.C. Of course, I learned it before I went to D.C. Because I had so many difficulties in my life that I was pretty tough. Still soft spiritually, but tough. And you know, so you have to, we have to take the bull while they're horns. They can't run over us roughshod. They have to be corrected. There can be arguments.

[00:41:43] Instead, when you get insulting or call them names, that's the point where I don't think God would approve of that. But you can certainly speak the truth in love and sometimes just out of anger. So they have to stop. And we have to stop them somehow. And I think there's some strides being made with that. I'm kind of encouraged, like with the recent indictment again of Jim Comey. Hang on a second. Mine is a subpoena. You want to say?

[00:42:12] No, I think it was another indictment. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So it's on his, you know, 86, whatever that thing he wrote on the beach. That's what the... 86, 47. Yeah. 47. That's the gist of it. But there are nuances to that. Yeah. He needs to be brought back, speaking of someone who's out of control. Yeah. That's exactly, exactly right. You have to have... The people who are supposed to be enforcing the laws have to show some restraint as well.

[00:42:38] And also, you don't see things like that would imply killing the president when you're a former FBI director. There are just some things that are common sense. Yeah. And I fear he's done a lot of other bad things. It's been going on for a long time, but it has to stop. But so that's encouraging. And I think Jimmy Kimmel, for his remarks about Melania Trump, you know, he's saying that she makes a beautiful widow or something like that. She'll make a beautiful widow.

[00:43:05] Or that's the glow in the face of a woman who knows she'll soon be a widow. Something like that. So he's been suspended. And that's good. I want to say, yay. That's what should happen. That's... Those people that are just feeling very free to threaten the president, and there's a ton, there's a bucket load of them, there should be... There's a bar up in Wisconsin. Did you hear this? That's giving a ransom or a bounty for anybody that would kill the president.

[00:43:33] So how can that community allow that? I mean, I think the Secret Service should go up there and say, you know, interview them and charge them if they have to. Yeah. It's just simply not acceptable. It's not a joke. You don't joke about things like that. You wouldn't... The bar owners wouldn't want somebody to have a bounty on their wife or their husband or their loved one or their children. You don't do it to the president of the United States. He is...

[00:44:02] First, he's the president of the United States and the leader of the free world. And also, he's a human being. And you just don't do that to other human beings. We don't... That's not how we act. You don't go around looking for a ransom to murder somebody. It's just wrong. Jenny Beth, I've been so impressed with him. You know, he said, you probably heard him say, I don't want to die.

[00:44:28] I want to live because I want to fix this country or something. I don't know what his word, fix this country or take care of this country. Who says that? He's just had a third assassination attempt. And he says, I don't want to die. But I want to live so that I can save this country. Not so I can spend my millions. Not so I can, you know, lay on the beach. No. Because I want to save this country. I love it. That's the kind of president we have.

[00:44:57] And I think that's... You know, these tragedies have a way of revealing all kinds of things about all of us. That's true. It reveals a lot about him. He's a fighter. He loves this country. He could have stopped. He didn't have to run for re-election again. He could have just stopped. And he chose not to. And he did... I think if he had chosen... If he had chosen to stop, his life would have been a lot easier.

[00:45:27] And he wouldn't have faced indictments. And he wouldn't have had to spend the money on the legal fees that he was having to spend money on. And instead, he did what he thought was right for our country. And in the interviews after that assassination attempt, I think one of... I'm paraphrasing. I'm paraphrasing here, so I don't have it exactly right. But the interviewer is asking, were you afraid? What did you think? And he says, I know these things happen. Presidents have... There have been assassination attempts.

[00:45:57] History is full of these kind of things happening to people. He understands the risk. And he's doing it anyway. And I don't know that there are very many Americans... Obviously, we have a volunteer military in this country. And they understand the risk. And they're willing to take that risk for our freedom and our liberty. But it's a very small percentage of Americans who are willing to look that kind of risk in the eye day after day.

[00:46:27] And do it anyway because they love our country. And they're trying to make sure things are better for the next generation. I think we had some founding fathers like that, didn't we? But now look at our Congress. You know, so many people like running out. I'm sorry. This is a blanket criticism. And I guess it is for the moment. You know, leaving the sinking ship. It's hard. It's too hard to be in Congress right now. So many of them are leaving. So you contrast that with President Trump.

[00:46:56] I don't think any of them have been shot at or shot. But they can't take the heat. And it just is a contrast in the kind of man that President Trump is. Because you're right, Jenny Beth. He didn't have to run initially. He had everything a man could ever want. But he had a higher calling. I'll call it that. And I know some people will scoff at that. They'll say, well, did you see him? Did you post that thing where he looked like Jesus? I don't think he meant... I really... I take him at his word. I don't think he was...

[00:47:25] I would say, like, when I was a kid, there was an artist who did all these drawings in your Bible. They were standard. They were real pretty colors, like watercolors. And Jesus kind of had blue eyes. And there's a soft light. That painting had that picture. And I thought, you know, I could... He might not have ever seen a Bible like that. And for those of us that have, we would have immediately thought that's Jesus. But I don't think he would have immediately thought that. Why would he? It was somebody, you know, healing someone.

[00:47:54] And I take him at his word. And I think just his humility over these shootings, each time thanking God and saying he feels called to do what he's doing. I don't think he, for a minute, thinks that he's Jesus. I really don't. So he says a lot of things. He does a lot of things that are not careful. But you have to look at what a man does, not what he says. That's always been my motto.

[00:48:19] And I think when you look at what he's done and what he's doing, there are very few men who could do what he's doing. Very few, indeed. There may only be one. And we're very fortunate to live in a time where we get to watch him. We're watching history be made every single day. And you and I are close to it.

[00:48:43] We know these people and we're able to report on it and to tell other people about it and to call to action. And I think we're very blessed to live at this point in time in history. There's never been a time like it before in our country. There won't be again afterwards. And I'm thankful that it's President Trump in the White House right now. Oh, I am, too.

[00:49:08] My husband always says, oh, we're going to miss him so much when he steps down. We're going to miss him so much. And we will. You're right, Jenny Beth. But I would say, and I know you agree because I watch you work. I know how many things. I don't know how many, but I know many of the things that you're doing. You're tireless in your efforts to save this country yourself. And I think for just for everyone listening, I really do think it's time to step up. I used to say this on my radio show every day. Say something.

[00:49:38] Do something. You might not be able to do everything. How could you possibly? You can't fix everything, but you could do something. You could do something. And so this is not the time to say, oh, I'm tired of that. They're all crooks and I don't want to vote. And I don't want to watch it anymore. Don't you dare. If President Trump can keep going after he's been nearly killed three times, you can surely bear the anxiety of watching the news and then do something in response to what you're saying. I just want to challenge everyone to do that.

[00:50:08] Yeah, you're right about that, Sandy. And in D.C., the last few times I've been to D.C., I hear people who work in and around Capitol Hill and they all just it's like they've they've given up on conservatives being able to win in November and they're already planning for. For what will happen if they're not even if but when they're in the minority. And I am so sick of that. And I let them hear it.

[00:50:35] The the last couple of times I'm there, I'm just like, you have to stop because the grassroots around this country are going to step up and do everything they can to help ensure that President Trump doesn't have to live through more impeachments. None of us want that. He doesn't deserve that. And that's exactly what the left will do if they if they gain control in the House of Representatives. He doesn't deserve to have his agenda thwarted by a bunch of leftists.

[00:51:04] And we have to do all we can to make sure that we are able to help him enact his his agenda legislatively and hold those majorities, the conservative majorities in the House and the Senate. It's extremely important that we do that. And we're not giving up. He's not giving up. Even after that assassination attempt, he's like, I want to go back in there right now. And he would have gone back in had the area had the security seal not been broken.

[00:51:32] He would have gone back in and the show would have continued on on Saturday night. He's determined for them to to to have the White House Correspondents Center again within a month. And if the president of the United States is not giving up, if he was willing against all odds to stand up and run for office again and after having lost and I say that in

[00:51:58] air quotes, run again and against all odds become the president again in this country. He deserves for us to stand up and do something as well and to do everything we can in our own capacity. He fights, fights, fights every single day. And we need to be willing to do the same. I think so, too, Jenny Beth. And I think of our mutual friends in Congress. There's a there are this a significant group of them.

[00:52:26] I the Freedom Caucus Caucus are my favorite guys and they fight, fight, fight. They don't give up. They and, you know, they started a lot of scorn came their way when they first formed several years ago, as you remember. But they would not stop and they never have. I don't know if they've ever been through a time where they kept compromise. I don't recall in the last 15 years, maybe. I don't know when they formed, but something like that. They fight, fight, fight. They make a lot of sacrifices, too.

[00:52:55] And many times when I've gotten tired and I have gotten tired, I have to tell you, I've been doing this a long time. When I think of them still in their fighting and I think of the president, I can't quit. I can't leave them there by themselves. How can we do that? You know, this reminds me of another story. When I got after 9-11, when I was in North Korea, we came back across the border into northern Manchuria.

[00:53:19] I believe I mentioned this and we were in a Chinese restaurant anyway and learned about what had happened on 9-11 the day before. And so we ended up getting stranded in Beijing for about 10 days. And some people, you know, people wanted to go home, but because we weren't sure what was happening at home. So everybody was pretty tough. You know, we'd meet together every day and talk. I'd watch the news at night. We were 12 hours difference.

[00:53:48] But one guy on his own, by himself, arranged to leave Beijing. And so he just disappeared and left the rest of us behind. Now, I didn't care. I wouldn't go with him anyway. But it's just the mentality that you would take care of yourself and leave this group that you've been with for the last 10 days in these very unusual circumstances in northern Manchuria and other places in North Korea. And he said, but he took care of himself.

[00:54:18] But see, do you want to be a person like that? What does a person like that gain? I don't think you gain much. I think I want to be the person that stands steadfast, immovable, unshakable on the things that I believe in, my faith and also my love of country, which are quite compatible. Thank goodness. So and I know you feel that way, Jenny Beth. I know you do. I've seen you do. I can't say enough about, you know, I see what I see you.

[00:54:46] I always tell you how proud I am of you, how thorough you are, how you work hard. You're so organized and your strategy, your ability to strategize is so good. And so I congratulate you again today so that your listeners can hear that from me. Well, thank you. Thank you so much, Sandy. I really appreciate that. And I love the country just like you. And the great thing is I love this country.

[00:55:11] And I know that the activists with Tea Pretty Patriots Action love our country and love our constitution. And they want to make a difference. And I just do my best to find ways for them to make a difference on the values we've been standing for for all these years. Sandy, let's switch gears just a little bit. And you have a book that has come out the last couple of years called The Velvet Hammer. How did that title come about? And tell us about that book.

[00:55:41] Well, it's God's Velvet Hammer. And the reason I called it is because I touched on this earlier, but when I started doing television, I'd done a little bit in Chicago, but not much. I was very awkward and unscathed. Talk radio is not the same thing as television. So I got off to kind of a rocky start trying to learn, you know, where to look. But once I got my footing, I was pretty fierce.

[00:56:08] And actually, some people would criticize me because I was too hard. They felt I was not—it was unchristlike. But I knew I had to fight, and you know that too. As long as you don't disparage someone in a kind of—what are you looking for? Like just a casual comment meant to hurt someone. But if you're talking about the truth, I'll say the truth to anybody, anytime.

[00:56:34] And so people started calling me The Velvet Hammer because I guess I was a little bit kind in there. But I really landed some blows. That's why. So anyway, the book is called God's Velvet Hammer. I am glad you were able to do that. And Sandy, you've been in this fight for over 30 years. You've written the book about it. You've watched this movement grow and fight and sometimes lose.

[00:57:01] My question to you is when you look at the state of culture right now, the hostility towards faith, the attack on children, the collapse of the family, do you believe we are in a battle that we're capable of winning? Or have we already lost something we can't get back? In my humanity, I think we've lost. I think it's just absolutely so depraved. It's unbelievable.

[00:57:27] And I remember it was Billy Graham's sister, Ruth Graham, who said, if we don't sort of sort things out—she said this several years ago— God's going to have to apologize to Solomon Gamora if he lets us continue like this. But so that was funny. But look, there's nothing God can't do. And if you know Scripture, you know there is going to be an ending, and things are going to be worse until the wheels do completely come off the bus.

[00:57:56] But none of us know when that time is. And I personally believe it could be soon. It could be soon where we just—everything spins out of control. But God does listen to the prayers of his people. In this country, you really love him and trust him. And I just always ask my prayers, God, you know, please have grace. Have mercy. Have mercy.

[00:58:22] Give us a little more time and help us to just fight this stuff. And I could go either way. The bottom line is, I don't know. And I think it could go either way. In my mind, I think, how could it go on longer? But God is not me, and I'm not God. I thought I should say that because he knows the times and the places. But it is certainly unfolding the way he said it would in Scripture.

[00:58:49] But there's no end date in Scripture, so we don't know. So we just continue to do what's right. Just finish well in the time that we have. Fight, fight, fight, as President Trump says. Because what do you want to do? Go sit in your house and do nothing? Watch TV, get Chinese, or play pickleball, or do whatever you did, play cards? Is that really the way you want to spend your life? I don't think so.

[00:59:18] Because I think life has every day is precious every single day. It's a good thing to just ask God to help you make the very most of that day, because you don't know how many more days you have left, just like we don't know how many more days our country has left. We don't know. And you don't know if today's your last day, or you've got 10 more days, or 10 more years you don't know. And don't you want to live your life in such a way that you can be proud and just pleased

[00:59:48] with how you spent your time? And so that's just my challenge for people. Life needs to have meaning. And God brings meaning to your life. He brings meaning to death. He brings meaning to life. He just brings meaning to your life. And also to the end of times, there'll be meaning to that. If we live that long, if the next few years the wheels do really come off the bus and we

[01:00:11] just see it, he will be that steady source of strength and wisdom during those terrible times we might have to face. So Sandy, what would you tell the people at home right now, whether it's a mom or a pastor or an everyday person who maybe isn't active already, what would you encourage them to do? Active in the culture, you mean? Yes. Yeah.

[01:00:39] Well, I think, again, the principle to me is just, it's like I used to run. Jog would be the better word. My first cousin was a runner. He ran the Olympic Games. So I know a little about running. I was never a runner. I was a jogger. But I learned if I got out of shape, the best way to run was to just run, walk, run, like run until I'm breathing like that and then walk a while and try to get in a mile and then build up slowly.

[01:01:08] And I think it's the same way with this. Find something that your heart beats a little fast for. Some news story that you hear, some candidate, some mayor, some school board issue. And don't just sit there and listen. Find something that you can do. If you're a parent, you won't have to look for. If you're a grandparent, I don't know. There's just, there's never a lack of things to do. But it's a different thing for every person in every community. So I can't give like a tea party. Patriots is a great way to start.

[01:01:37] Jenny Beth gives you so many issues and tells you how to get busy and get started. She's done all of that for you. So I think that's maybe, maybe that's the solution in this conversation is join Tea Party Patriots so that you'll know what's going on and you'll know what is the best plan of action to take because that's what Jenny Beth does. Well, thank you, Sandy. And tell, you have a podcast right now.

[01:02:02] So you went from broadcasting to being the head of Concerned Women for America, going back to broadcasting. And now you have a podcast, which really is broadcasting in today's world. So how can people follow you? What do you talk about on your show every day? It's Sandy Rios 24-7. You can find me on any podcast platform, Sandy Rios 24-7. I talk about things like, oh, let's see. I have so many. I can't think of anything I've talked about.

[01:02:32] No, I'm kidding. I talked about John Eastman when he was disbarred last week. But I talked to Ken Cuccinelli about the Virginia redistricting. I talked to Robert Malone, Dr. Robert Malone, all through COVID. And then whenever anything comes, he's a genius and he knows a lot about it. So I talked to him. It's a show that has a lot of variety, not as much variety as I would like. Because when I did a three-hour drive time show, I could have so much fun.

[01:03:01] And then I could do all these heavy things. Then we could do some fun. I used to have the head of Bloom Animal Hospital, Dr. Shelly Rubin, on my show every... In those days, people came into the studio, oh, so quaint. But Shelly would come in. And I famously didn't like dogs. I don't want your listeners not to like me. But at that time, it was a joke. We made a joke out of it. And I'd said on the radio, the only kind of dog I would ever have would be a freeze-dried dog. And everybody, oh!

[01:03:31] You know, so it was a shtick that I did. So when Shelly would come in and talk about animals, especially dogs, we'd always have that. We had a lot of fun. I had a lot of fun. We did, you know, the special pieces that Rush used to do, the sound and all the production pieces. I had a team just like that. And they did just hilarious things. Like during the Bill Clinton years when... Well, not the other Clinton years, but then in Florida.

[01:03:58] During later, when Al Gore was running and the Chad problem was going right, we had a shtick where we had Al Gore in the back of a semi-truck counting Chads, or counting ballots, 1,001, 1,002. You know, we had great voices. Oh, we did. We had so much fun. So now I'm stuck with the podcast. And I'm kidding. I really do enjoy doing it.

[01:04:22] But I don't have the ability or the freedom to do all those fun things I used to do. But I really do like it. So I mostly talk about news and politics, but not always. Sometimes, of course, unlike on... For Easter, I produced a special show with a lot of music, beautiful music, and would just talk in between the songs about the Savior and about what it meant, the cross and all that. So I do some of that, too.

[01:04:52] So I hope that answers your question. It's Sandy Rios 24-7. You can get it on any podcast platform, and I'd love to have you join me. Well, I think everyone should go and join you and listen to your podcast every single day and pick up your book, God's Velvet Hammer. Learn more about the work that you have done in your life and how you continue to stand for liberty every single day. Thank you, Janine. Sandy Rios, thank you so much for joining me today. My pleasure, Janine Beth. That's so nice to actually see you in person, at least sort of, kind of.

[01:05:22] So thank you for inviting me. If you enjoyed today's conversation, go ahead and hit like and subscribe. It really helps us reach more people who care about liberty and the Constitution. You can find this and other episodes at JennyBethShow.com, as well as Facebook, YouTube, Rumble, Instagram, X, and your favorite podcast platform. The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin. The Jenny Beth Show is a production of Tea Party Patriots Action.

[01:05:50] For more information, visit teapartypatriots.org.