Solving US Inflation & Rebuilding the Economy | Michael Faulkender, America First Policy Institute

[00:00:00] So President Trump has demonstrated when you're willing to use tariffs as a bargaining tool, you can get these countries to come to the table and actually start living up to their commitments. So yes, wouldn't it be nice if everybody abided by them? But given, as you said, that many countries don't abide by the terms of the trade agreements that they have entered into, then it's absolutely appropriate for the administration to use tariffs as a mechanism to either generate compliance or to impose a cost on those producers.

[00:00:30] for the non-compliance coming out of those countries.

[00:00:33] Keeping our Republic is on the line, and it requires patriots with great passion, dedication, and eternal vigilance to preserve our freedoms. Jenny Beth Martin is the co-founder of Tea Party Patriots. She is an author, a filmmaker, and one of Time Magazine's most influential people in the world. But the title she is most proud of is mom to her boy-girl twins.

[00:00:56] She has been at the forefront, fighting to protect America's core principles for more than a decade. Welcome to The Jenny Beth Show.

[00:01:05] In today's episode, I'm joined by the Honorable Michael Faulkender, former Assistant Secretary for Economic Policy at the U.S. Treasury and current Chief Economist at the America First Policy Institute.

[00:01:17] We discuss inflation, government spending, and the policies that are hurting American families. Don't miss this important conversation on what it will take to restore our economy.

[00:01:29] Michael, it's so great to have you with me today. Thanks for joining us. Could you please tell our audience a little bit about your background just so they know more about you and how you are an expert on the economy?

[00:01:41] Michael Faulkender, President, Sure. Happy to. So thanks for having me on, Jenny Beth. I have been a finance professor since 2002. I have a Ph.D. in finance from Northwestern University.

[00:01:49] And then in 2017, I was asked by Secretary Mnuchin to join the Department of Treasury. So President Trump nominated me to be the Assistant Secretary for Economic Policy at the U.S. Treasury Department in 2018.

[00:02:04] I was confirmed by the United States Senate in 2019 and served until the end of the administration in January of 2021. And then in 2022, I became chief economist here at the America First Policy Institute.

[00:02:19] That is a very impressive background. Considering this expertise, how do you assess the current situation with the economy as we're headed into the fall of 2024? And what are the biggest challenges?

[00:02:33] Yeah, the American people have been struggling with the inflation that they have endured over these last couple of years. During the entirety of the Trump administration, prices rose on average less than 8 percent. And we've had nearly 20 percent increase in prices during the Biden administration.

[00:02:49] And the bigger problem is that their income hasn't kept up. So if you look at earnings, if you look at wages, they have not been growing at the same pace that we have seen inflation.

[00:02:59] And so while under the Trump administration, the median household saw about a six thousand dollar increase in purchasing power, their earnings on an inflation adjusted basis went up about six thousand dollars.

[00:03:14] During the Biden administration, it's fallen by about two thousand dollars.

[00:03:18] And so affordability of things like energy, food. The American people are really struggling with those things.

[00:03:27] And mind you that that 20 percent inflation number does not include the increase in interest rates and the increase in, therefore, the monthly payment on a house.

[00:03:36] And so if you look at it during the last four years, the cost on a monthly basis of the median priced house in the United States has doubled because of the increase in housing prices coupled with a massive increase in interest rates.

[00:03:51] And so whether it's being able to afford to put food on the table, gas in the tank or kind of one of the singular most important things people look to as an achievement in their lifetime that really demonstrates success and prosperity, homeownership has suffered enormously.

[00:04:08] And so if you look at if you look at Americans under 35, they are they are facing some of the worst affordability problems in the in the last 40 years.

[00:04:18] And so that's really the struggles that they're having.

[00:04:21] And the policies that we see coming out of the Biden Harris administration have really caused a lot of that.

[00:04:27] So, Michael, we feel the the average person who is not an economist, we feel the effects of inflation because we we see it when we're going to buy groceries or buy gas or as you just said, the cost of house housing has doubled.

[00:04:44] What causes this kind of inflation?

[00:04:48] Right. So if you look at the approach that the Biden administration has followed, they have thrown a massive amount of money into the economy.

[00:04:58] And so when Joe Biden came into office within two months, they passed what's called the American Rescue Plan, which was two trillion dollars in additional spending.

[00:05:07] But at the same time, they continue to make it more and more difficult to actually make things here in the United States.

[00:05:14] So we are no longer energy independent here in the United States.

[00:05:19] Manufacturing has largely been in a recession.

[00:05:21] There is an enormous increase in the cost of doing business because of the regulatory requirements that the Biden administration has imposed.

[00:05:30] And so, again, not to get to econ professory, but when you make it more expensive to operate, we would consider that a reduction in supply, a reduction in available output.

[00:05:44] But if you at the same time have massive increases in the amount of money in the economy from government spending, that's going to be a surge in demand.

[00:05:53] And so if demand increases while supply contracts, the natural new outcome is going to be a significant amount of inflation.

[00:06:02] And that's why people like Larry Summers, who you may recall was the Treasury Secretary to Bill Clinton, was the director of the National Economic Council to Barack Obama, former president of Harvard University, economist at Harvard University, deemed the Biden administration's economic policies the worst macroeconomic policy in 40 years.

[00:06:26] When you mentioned a minute ago that wages have not gone up, isn't there even a danger?

[00:06:35] If wages had kept up with inflation, then wouldn't inflation wind up going even more?

[00:06:42] Because to be able to pay your employees to keep up with inflation, you're going to have to charge more.

[00:06:49] So it's kind of this double-edged sword, it seems like.

[00:06:51] Right. So the concern that you have is what we call a wage price spiral.

[00:06:56] And so once inflation gets out of control the way that it did in late 2021 and into 2022, as you just said, as prices increase, then workers are going to need more money in order to afford things.

[00:07:10] And so wages are going to have to go up.

[00:07:12] But if wages go up, then the business has to find some way to pay those higher wages.

[00:07:17] And so then they raise prices. And so you get this spiral where one begets the next and it can it can spiral out of control.

[00:07:25] And that's why we need to have been a lot more careful back in 2021 about the amount of money government threw into the economy and how much excessive regulation that constricts the ability of the economy to adjust to all of that increased government spending.

[00:07:41] And that can potentially create that kind of wage price spiral.

[00:07:45] And that's why the Fed has struggled to get inflation tamped down.

[00:07:49] You know, inflation has come down from about 9 percent to now less than 3 percent.

[00:07:54] Their target is 2, but it's going to take them a while just to get from 3 down to 2 because of that spiral effect we just discussed.

[00:08:02] So how would you how would you solve the problems that we face right now?

[00:08:08] What how do we and how do we get these problems solved?

[00:08:12] Obviously, whatever you say isn't going to happen if Kamala Harris continues running the country.

[00:08:18] But if we had a new administration, what would you think are the best things to do to solve the problems?

[00:08:24] Yeah. So there are fortunately there are some economic policies that we can put in place that would really help the American people with this affordability crisis.

[00:08:33] And so our focus has really been on increasing abundance.

[00:08:37] And it's a seven pillar plan and the fall and it has the following components.

[00:08:42] So number one, unleash American energy abundance.

[00:08:45] If we would drill more, if we would refine more, if we would go with an all of the above energy strategy, because energy permeates energy costs permeate every sector of our economy.

[00:08:58] So it's not just the amount of energy we individually consume.

[00:09:00] But if you think about the products that we use, the services that we use in order to create many of those products, you need energy.

[00:09:08] You need fossil fuels in order to transport those products from their manufacturing facility to the store and then home.

[00:09:16] You need energy to do that. So getting back to energy independence is the first pillar.

[00:09:21] Second, we need to slash all of the inflationary government spending during the 50 years prior to the pandemic.

[00:09:28] The federal government was spending about 20 percent of national output.

[00:09:32] It's averaged more like 23 to 24 percent during the Biden administration and is expected to continue.

[00:09:38] We need to get government spending back down.

[00:09:40] Third, we need to slash a lot of that regulation.

[00:09:43] The Biden administration is estimated to have imposed $1.6 trillion worth of additional compliance costs on the American economy.

[00:09:52] And so if we can take away a lot of that unnecessary regulation, we can bring down the cost of producing and providing services to the American people.

[00:10:00] Fourth, we need to extend pro-growth tax reform.

[00:10:03] We do not have a revenue problem in this country.

[00:10:05] We have a spending problem.

[00:10:06] Revenues have been coming in just fine, just like their historical averages.

[00:10:11] It's the government spending that's the problem.

[00:10:13] It's not a revenue.

[00:10:14] And so if you raise taxes during this time, you even further reduce incentives for individuals and businesses to fulfill the needs of our economy.

[00:10:22] Fifth, we need reciprocal trade agreements.

[00:10:25] It should not be the case that other countries are taking advantage of our trade laws.

[00:10:30] We need to make sure that if other countries are imposing tariffs on the products and services that we export, that we're applying that same kind of approach to products that are coming into the United States.

[00:10:41] Sixth, we need to make sure that we have sound money and sound financial institutions.

[00:10:44] We can't have the Federal Reserve printing a bunch of money and causing inflation, nor can we have them engaging in things like ESG and central bank digital currencies that really undermine the freedom and privacy of the American people.

[00:11:00] Seventh, healthy America.

[00:11:01] We need to make sure that health care dollars are going towards the American people, not towards insurance bureaucracies and government.

[00:11:08] Okay.

[00:11:09] I have a couple of questions or a few questions about the things that you just went over.

[00:11:13] One, I want to start with the tax policy first because I have a couple of questions.

[00:11:19] First, could you compare and contrast what each of the two candidates have said, Harris and Trump, about what they plan to do regarding taxes?

[00:11:32] And then when you finish with that, I want to ask you something that I'm seeing from local governments around the country.

[00:11:39] Sure.

[00:11:39] But first, let's address the federal level.

[00:11:42] Absolutely.

[00:11:42] So, President Trump has said that extending the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act is an important piece.

[00:11:47] So many of its provisions expire in 2025.

[00:11:51] If they are not extended, then every American who pays federal income taxes would see their taxes go up because we reduced the rates, we doubled the standard deduction.

[00:12:02] Those things go away in 2025.

[00:12:05] In addition, President Trump has talked about not taxing tips and also not taxing Social Security benefits.

[00:12:11] So, in 1983, Congress decided that it would implement a tax on Social Security benefits for those making more than $25,000.

[00:12:22] That $25,000 was never adjusted for inflation.

[00:12:25] And as we just talked about, there has been quite a lot of inflation in the last 40 years, particularly in the last four years.

[00:12:31] And so, that $25,000 threshold is hitting a lot more seniors.

[00:12:36] And so, we can do something about easing the burden, particularly on seniors on a fixed income, by taking a look at Social Security taxes.

[00:12:44] As opposed to what Kamala Harris has said, you know, I don't know what she is looking to do on taxes because, you know, her website still contains no information.

[00:12:53] Her campaign has apparently leaked information to the press.

[00:12:57] But we have not seen Kamala Harris walk back many of the things that she has said over time.

[00:13:02] She and President Biden have talked about having the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act expire, raising the corporate income tax rate.

[00:13:09] Well, you know, the corporate income tax rate is how we make sure that businesses choose to locate their operations here in the United States rather than abroad.

[00:13:18] We're right in the middle of the pack in terms of where the corporate income tax rate is relative to the rest of the developed world.

[00:13:25] Kamala Harris wants to take it above China and above most of the rest of the developed countries in this world.

[00:13:30] So, that would make us less competitive.

[00:13:32] And the thing is, there are a lot of academic studies that show corporations pass on corporate income taxes.

[00:13:39] So, if you raise corporate income tax rates, that gets passed on in the form of lower wages and higher prices.

[00:13:45] And so, if you go back to the fact that the American people have seen their purchasing power from their earnings go $2,000 less under Joe Biden,

[00:13:54] that would get even worse under a Kamala Harris administration worry she to carry forward on raising taxes on both corporations and individuals.

[00:14:06] Okay.

[00:14:06] Thank you for answering and explaining that.

[00:14:09] One of the things that I have noticed with local governments around the country right now,

[00:14:14] I think they're hurting from inflation just like everyone else is hurting.

[00:14:19] And they are, I'm noticing even in Republican areas where maybe the county commission is all Republicans,

[00:14:27] they're looking at increasing property taxes or increasing sales taxes.

[00:14:32] Do those same issues that you're mentioning when you raise taxes affect a local government?

[00:14:39] And what would you advise a local government when it comes to taxing?

[00:14:44] Yeah, they do.

[00:14:45] Because local areas also compete for businesses and for people to live there.

[00:14:51] And so, if you look at Chevron, who is moving from California to Texas, you look at that Elon Musk is moving Tesla from California to Texas.

[00:15:00] California has an exceptionally onerous tax environment, whereas Texas does not.

[00:15:05] And so, local governments also have issues that if they raise taxes too much,

[00:15:09] you'll see people who are being taxed decide to go to lower tax rate states and localities.

[00:15:17] And that just exacerbates the budget situation they've got.

[00:15:20] Instead, they need to look at why is there so much spending going on?

[00:15:23] And this is where I have a lot of sympathy for state and local governments,

[00:15:27] because what are some of the big things that are causing their costs to go up?

[00:15:31] You mentioned part of it is inflation.

[00:15:33] But the other part of it is that the Biden-Harris administration has turned every state into a border state.

[00:15:40] Look at the amount of money that state and local governments are having to come up with

[00:15:44] to address the education, health care, and housing issues of all of these illegal immigrants who are coming across our border.

[00:15:54] And that the Biden-Harris administration, Biden's border czar herself, Kamala Harris,

[00:15:59] is providing work permits and parole into our country.

[00:16:04] That's creating enormous burdens for red states, for blue states, for red municipalities, for blue state municipalities.

[00:16:10] And they're having to find money to cover the costs on those things.

[00:16:14] So, you know, I understand those problems.

[00:16:18] But what we need to do is make sure that we have an administration that is going to once again enforce the border

[00:16:25] and make sure that we're not having millions of illegal immigrants come into our country

[00:16:30] and utilize all of these local services that they cannot afford.

[00:16:34] That's a really good point.

[00:16:35] I'm glad that you pointed that out, Michael.

[00:16:38] And I need to make sure that in areas that are having these kind of problems locally

[00:16:43] that I tell people to listen to what you just said,

[00:16:46] because you're offering very good advice and important things that these local governments really need to pay attention to.

[00:16:55] When it comes to regulation and slashing regulation, why do you think that that is so important?

[00:17:04] And how do things like the Green New Deal or mandates on what kind of car you need to drive

[00:17:10] or whatever it might be, just more and more mandates, why is that such a problem?

[00:17:17] And also, I want to talk about those compliance costs.

[00:17:20] But first, why are the mandates such a problem?

[00:17:22] Right. So when you come in and have government tell companies how to operate,

[00:17:27] then you're somewhat presuming that the bureaucracies understand those businesses better than they themselves.

[00:17:35] And I remind people all the time, we are the most diverse nation in the world.

[00:17:40] No matter how you measure diversity, we are the most diverse.

[00:17:43] And the benefit of a private economic system, of a market-based private enterprise system,

[00:17:51] is that the profit motive incentivizes businesses to meet those diverse needs,

[00:17:57] as opposed to a central government who is going to provide one-size-fits-all solutions.

[00:18:02] So if you leave it to the private marketplace, for those who want to buy electric vehicles,

[00:18:07] the private market will serve those needs.

[00:18:09] For those who want internal combustion engine vehicles, they will serve those needs.

[00:18:13] For those who want hybrids, great.

[00:18:15] But when government comes in and says whether you like it or not, you have to have an EV.

[00:18:19] Because we know better than you.

[00:18:21] We know better than you, the consumer.

[00:18:22] We know better than you, the business.

[00:18:24] What kind of car you need or what kind of stove you can have

[00:18:28] or where you can set the thermostat that determines your electricity

[00:18:33] or what kind of fuel mix that a power company can generate.

[00:18:38] All of those things presume that the federal government,

[00:18:41] in its one-size-fits-all approach, is going to know better.

[00:18:44] But you can't serve the diversity of the American people

[00:18:47] by having this government top-down approach

[00:18:51] that puts the bureaucrats in charge rather than Main Street small businesses.

[00:18:55] So that's why it's so costly to the American people.

[00:18:58] But when they do so, it's expensive as well.

[00:19:02] You know, so when government comes out with a regulation,

[00:19:06] you've got to have lawyers, you've got to have management consultants,

[00:19:09] you've got to have accountants,

[00:19:10] you've got to have people who come in who just worry about compliance.

[00:19:16] Well, the company's got to pay for that.

[00:19:19] And they're going to pass on that cost.

[00:19:21] So if now you've got to put in place a bunch of rules

[00:19:25] and you've got to demonstrate to the government

[00:19:28] that you are doing everything necessary to comply with those rules,

[00:19:31] that cost gets passed on.

[00:19:33] And the thing most people don't understand is that those compliance costs,

[00:19:37] they're largely the same whether you're serving a thousand customers or a million customers.

[00:19:43] And so it hits small businesses particularly hard

[00:19:46] because they've got to spread that over a thousand customers

[00:19:49] rather than spreading it out over a million customers.

[00:19:51] And what does that do?

[00:19:52] It creates incentives for consolidation.

[00:19:54] It generates market power because you've got fewer and fewer businesses.

[00:19:58] It takes away choice because small businesses are in a better position

[00:20:02] to address individual market needs than big conglomerates.

[00:20:05] And so you, on the one hand, have the Biden-Harris administration

[00:20:09] complaining about concentration,

[00:20:11] complaining about the lack of competition,

[00:20:13] and then they put in place onerous regulations

[00:20:16] that just incentivizes the very consolidation that they don't like.

[00:20:19] Yeah, it's absolutely crazy.

[00:20:21] And maybe if you're just a very small mom-and-pop shop,

[00:20:26] you don't have as much to deal with some of the compliance.

[00:20:31] But once you start growing and creating jobs

[00:20:35] and expanding beyond just a one- or two-person shop,

[00:20:39] those compliance costs can prevent you from even growing,

[00:20:44] can wind up, you mentioned consolidation,

[00:20:46] but I think a lot of times it also leads to business failure

[00:20:49] because it's such a massive percentage of what you said about it being a flat cost

[00:20:56] no matter the size of the business.

[00:20:58] That's true.

[00:20:59] You're paying attorneys, you're paying accountants,

[00:21:01] you're paying other people to keep up with all of the government red tape.

[00:21:05] It's a fixed cost.

[00:21:06] And if you're not a very big business,

[00:21:08] it winds up eating so much of your costs

[00:21:10] that you may not even be able to have that business at all.

[00:21:15] It's craziness.

[00:21:16] And did you see it's $1.6 trillion total

[00:21:21] or a new additional compliance cost?

[00:21:24] That is new additional compliance costs

[00:21:26] since Joe Biden came into office.

[00:21:27] So our friends at the American Action Forum keep their website,

[00:21:31] I believe it's called Regulation Rodeo,

[00:21:33] and you can go to their website

[00:21:35] and you can find by year the new regulations

[00:21:39] that have been implemented by the federal government.

[00:21:41] And so if you go 2021 through 2024,

[00:21:45] my recollection is you come out to a number of in excess of $1.6 trillion.

[00:21:50] And mind you, this is the government's estimate of the regulatory burden.

[00:21:55] That's not to say that it's the actual amount,

[00:21:58] because do you think that the government has an incentive to underestimate

[00:22:01] or to overestimate the amount of regulatory burden they're imposing?

[00:22:05] So to the extent that you agree with me that it's probably an underestimation,

[00:22:09] you should think about that $1.6 trillion in incremental regulatory burden

[00:22:13] as being a lower bound.

[00:22:15] And the United States gross domestic product,

[00:22:20] the whole economy,

[00:22:21] how large is it and what kind of percentage is that of the whole economy?

[00:22:28] Yeah. So in round numbers,

[00:22:29] you should think about the economy being about $30 trillion.

[00:22:32] So $1.5 trillion burden on a $30 trillion economy is a 5%.

[00:22:36] That's just in new regulations.

[00:22:39] That doesn't even include, of course,

[00:22:40] all of the regulations that were already there.

[00:22:42] You know, and you contrast that with what we were able to accomplish

[00:22:45] during the Trump administration.

[00:22:47] President Trump, prior to the pandemic,

[00:22:49] was repealing about eight regulations

[00:22:52] for every new one that was being put in place.

[00:22:54] The regulatory burden actually went down under the Trump administration.

[00:22:59] And that's a big part of why we saw the growth

[00:23:02] and the improvement in household income.

[00:23:04] And the other piece that a lot of people don't understand

[00:23:07] is we at the same time have becoming a better environment.

[00:23:13] The air is cleaner.

[00:23:15] The water is cleaner.

[00:23:16] You know, what many want to try to suggest to the American people is,

[00:23:21] well, in order to have clean air and clean water,

[00:23:23] we have to impose all this regulation.

[00:23:25] No, we don't.

[00:23:26] If you look at it, we have the cleanest air, the cleanest water.

[00:23:30] And that's because things like shifting to natural gas

[00:23:34] have done enormous benefits in order to bring some of the pollutants out of the air.

[00:23:39] And so we were able to achieve energy independence

[00:23:43] for the first time in 70 years under President Trump

[00:23:45] while improving the environment.

[00:23:47] It is completely false to say that we have to choose between them.

[00:23:52] We can both increase energy independence and still have a clean environment.

[00:23:58] And the reason for that is because that energy is going to be created no matter what.

[00:24:05] And so if you put too much regulation on things here in the United States,

[00:24:09] what's going to happen?

[00:24:10] You're going to move energy production.

[00:24:11] You're going to move manufacturing to China.

[00:24:13] Does anybody believe that that energy production and that manufacturing in China

[00:24:18] is going to be done in a more environmentally friendly way

[00:24:20] or a less environmentally friendly way?

[00:24:23] That stuff's going to be produced anyways.

[00:24:25] So there's this paradox that when you actually implement more regulation,

[00:24:29] you actually get a worse environment

[00:24:31] because you, in the process, shift a lot of that activity

[00:24:34] to less regulated locations.

[00:24:36] Yeah.

[00:24:37] And those less regulated locations mean that Americans aren't working

[00:24:42] because they move the manufacturing out of America altogether

[00:24:47] and move it to a different country.

[00:24:49] So you get worse regulation.

[00:24:51] You hurt American workers and American families.

[00:24:55] And you mentioned that one of the things that we need are reciprocal trade agreements.

[00:25:02] And I always get in these debates, and I'm not, I have studied economics,

[00:25:09] but nothing at all like you.

[00:25:11] I have worked in manufacturing.

[00:25:15] So my first job out of college was working, doing the computer systems at a paper mill.

[00:25:21] And I have watched manufacturing firsthand,

[00:25:27] and I have a lot of respect for the people who manufacture and create products in our country.

[00:25:34] One of the things that always, I think it's a very strange situation that we find ourselves in,

[00:25:40] when I listen to the things that Milton Friedman said about how you want to have open economies

[00:25:47] with other countries and you don't want to have a lot of barriers to trade,

[00:25:51] I think that that makes, it does make logical sense.

[00:25:56] But I think that sometimes as I watch what was happening where I worked

[00:26:03] and in the paper mill that I worked in, I noticed, like I saw the compliance people.

[00:26:09] I saw their offices.

[00:26:11] I supported computer systems in their offices.

[00:26:13] And I could tell the kind of costs that it had on the entire company and the corporation.

[00:26:20] And it always seems like such a strange thing to me that America and economists will say,

[00:26:27] well, we want open trade.

[00:26:29] We want open trade with other countries.

[00:26:31] And I think, yeah, but we're playing in an uneven field

[00:26:35] because of the way that the regulations have such a burden on our manufacturers in America.

[00:26:43] It makes it much more expensive to produce here in America.

[00:26:47] And then in other countries, they don't have those kind of burdens.

[00:26:52] And it doesn't even, before you get to the fact that you want to have reciprocal trade agreements,

[00:26:57] I think that we wind up tying our hands behind our back

[00:27:00] and then trying to fight this battle because of all those regulations.

[00:27:04] Do you have any thoughts about that?

[00:27:05] Yeah, you touched on what the really important issues are here,

[00:27:08] which is that when we enter into a lot of our trade agreements,

[00:27:13] and if you think about kind of conceptually the notion of free trade,

[00:27:18] you have to have parties on both sides abiding by similar rules

[00:27:24] in order for free trade to be a fair situation.

[00:27:28] And so let's take China in particular.

[00:27:31] China steals our intellectual property.

[00:27:33] And so what you end up having happen is that whether it's in pharmaceuticals,

[00:27:38] whether it's in technology, whether it's in manufacturing,

[00:27:41] a lot of the innovation happens here in the United States,

[00:27:44] but then they steal that technology either through corporate espionage

[00:27:48] or they take that product and they reverse engineer it,

[00:27:52] and they therefore don't incur all of those costs, which gives them an unfair advantage.

[00:27:57] Now, intellectual property theft was a major issue

[00:28:00] when during the Trump administration we were negotiating the phase one China trade agreement

[00:28:06] because that gives them an unfair advantage.

[00:28:10] And if they are going to continue engaging in things like intellectual property theft,

[00:28:15] forced technology transfers, employment of slave labor,

[00:28:19] environmental laws that pollute our entire world, currency manipulation,

[00:28:24] all of these things that many of which are precluded

[00:28:26] under the agreement that they gained entry to the World Trade Organization,

[00:28:31] if the WTO is not going to enforce those things,

[00:28:34] then we need to revisit the type of terms

[00:28:37] by which those products come into the United States.

[00:28:41] And President Trump said, look,

[00:28:42] if these multilateral organizations are not going to fulfill their compliance obligations,

[00:28:47] then we are going to address this bilaterally,

[00:28:50] and we will use tariffs as a means to get them to the bargaining table

[00:28:55] and get them to abide by these agreements.

[00:28:57] And so President Trump has demonstrated that if you are unwilling to,

[00:29:01] when you're willing to use tariffs as a bargaining tool,

[00:29:04] you can get these countries to come to the table

[00:29:07] and actually start living up to their commitments.

[00:29:09] So yes, wouldn't it be nice if everybody abided by them?

[00:29:13] But given, as you said,

[00:29:15] that many countries don't abide by the terms

[00:29:17] of the trade agreements that they have entered into,

[00:29:20] then it's absolutely appropriate for the administration

[00:29:23] to use tariffs as a mechanism to either generate compliance

[00:29:26] or to impose a cost on those producers

[00:29:29] for the noncompliance coming out of those countries.

[00:29:33] And I think that it makes sense.

[00:29:35] I know that it can wind up,

[00:29:38] that it has the potential to cost Americans more

[00:29:42] when they're purchasing a product.

[00:29:44] So I understand and I acknowledge that,

[00:29:46] and I don't want that to happen.

[00:29:48] I also think that there's just something that is unjust

[00:29:52] about making it impossible for Americans

[00:29:55] to manufacture in America

[00:29:57] and then expect that part of the deal

[00:30:01] when they lost all those jobs

[00:30:03] is that you're going to have trade agreements

[00:30:05] that are going to be at least somewhat equitable

[00:30:07] and then they don't even live up to their end of the bargain.

[00:30:11] We're suffering,

[00:30:12] we wind up suffering every way you turn.

[00:30:15] And I just don't think that that is the right thing.

[00:30:18] I don't think that's the right thing to do.

[00:30:20] And so I found,

[00:30:23] I really struggle with some of the free market.

[00:30:27] I mean, I am a free market economist.

[00:30:29] I mean, I'm for free markets,

[00:30:31] but I just wind up struggling with that.

[00:30:33] And I think you explained it very well.

[00:30:35] Thank you.

[00:30:35] Right. So yeah, there's a couple other things,

[00:30:37] if you don't mind my adding on to it,

[00:30:38] because generating a robust manufacturing superpower

[00:30:43] here in the United States,

[00:30:44] again, is not just about tariffs, right,

[00:30:47] to enforce international agreements.

[00:30:50] It's also about having a tax environment

[00:30:52] that encourages manufacturing take place here

[00:30:55] rather than abroad.

[00:30:56] Again, that's why we can't have

[00:30:57] the highest corporate income tax rate in the world.

[00:30:59] It means having a regulatory environment

[00:31:01] that doesn't cause the manufacturing facility

[00:31:04] to be micromanaged by the federal government.

[00:31:07] Again, according to the National Association of Manufacturers,

[00:31:11] the manufacturing sector alone

[00:31:12] has $3 trillion worth of regulatory compliance

[00:31:16] associated with it, right?

[00:31:17] So that $1.5 trillion I mentioned before,

[00:31:20] that's just what the Biden administration has done.

[00:31:23] There, of course,

[00:31:23] were already a bunch of regulations in place.

[00:31:25] And our friends over at NAM have estimated

[00:31:27] that that's about $3 trillion in total

[00:31:30] just for the manufacturing sector.

[00:31:32] Then you have the energy costs on top of it.

[00:31:34] So if we make energy unreliable and expensive

[00:31:37] here in the United States,

[00:31:38] whereas it's cheap and reliable over in China,

[00:31:41] again, that increases the costs.

[00:31:43] We have to have an environment here,

[00:31:45] a cost environment, a regulatory environment,

[00:31:48] a tax environment, a trade environment,

[00:31:50] such that multinationals want to innovate here,

[00:31:54] want to build a manufacturing base here,

[00:31:56] because it's incredibly important

[00:31:58] that countries make things.

[00:32:00] Countries who don't make things

[00:32:02] are going to find themselves taken advantage of

[00:32:05] by countries that do.

[00:32:06] We saw that during the pandemic.

[00:32:08] We have critical supply chains

[00:32:10] where we are exceptionally vulnerable

[00:32:13] if a country like China decided to take advantage of it.

[00:32:16] That's the other piece

[00:32:17] that a lot of free market people don't take into account.

[00:32:20] It's something that we in economics call an externality.

[00:32:22] An individual company is not going to take into account

[00:32:26] the fact that the economy,

[00:32:28] that the nation may be vulnerable

[00:32:31] if we're reliant on something

[00:32:33] that's critical for human needs

[00:32:35] that comes solely from a single location.

[00:32:38] No individual company is going to internalize that,

[00:32:41] but the government needs to.

[00:32:43] And we therefore need to make sure

[00:32:45] that we don't create a vulnerability

[00:32:47] that a potential foe like China might exploit

[00:32:50] in order to extract some kind of geopolitical concession.

[00:32:54] Look no farther than the Russians and the Germans

[00:32:57] for an example of that.

[00:32:58] The Germans allowed themselves

[00:33:00] to become entirely too dependent

[00:33:03] on Russia for natural gas.

[00:33:06] And what happened?

[00:33:07] When Russia invaded Ukraine,

[00:33:10] the international community

[00:33:11] had to softwalk some of the sanctions

[00:33:13] because Germany still needed to get energy from Russia

[00:33:18] because of that vulnerability.

[00:33:20] Do we want to create vulnerabilities like that

[00:33:23] that can be exploited by potential adversaries?

[00:33:26] And so that's why we need to make sure

[00:33:28] that we have resilient supply chains

[00:33:30] and a robust industrial base here in the United States

[00:33:33] and tariffs appropriately are a tool

[00:33:35] to realize that national security objective.

[00:33:38] Thank you so much for explaining that.

[00:33:40] And I think it makes a lot of sense

[00:33:42] because you're not just looking at it

[00:33:43] the way that you just described it.

[00:33:45] You're looking at it from an economic standpoint,

[00:33:48] which is extremely important.

[00:33:49] And we also, and the government does have a role

[00:33:53] and a responsibility to look at national security

[00:33:56] and to make sure that we are a secure nation

[00:33:59] that isn't creating those vulnerabilities

[00:34:03] that you mentioned.

[00:34:04] Right.

[00:34:06] Okay.

[00:34:07] Moving on to another part,

[00:34:09] you were talking about the sound financial institutions

[00:34:13] and the sound money policy.

[00:34:15] What are the things that are necessary

[00:34:18] to have a sound money policy?

[00:34:21] Right.

[00:34:21] So if you look at a lot of the spending

[00:34:24] that took place during COVID

[00:34:26] and then once COVID was largely over,

[00:34:30] the government spending still continued.

[00:34:31] The Federal Reserve engaged

[00:34:33] in an extraordinarily accommodative monetary policy.

[00:34:37] The Federal Reserve's balance sheet ballooned

[00:34:41] and you couple a lot of federal spending

[00:34:44] then that gets monetized by the Federal Reserve.

[00:34:48] That's your recipe for inflation.

[00:34:50] And that's what we mean by sound money

[00:34:52] is that we should not be having massive increases

[00:34:56] in the money supply.

[00:34:57] We should not have the Federal Reserve

[00:34:59] accommodating really negative fiscal policy

[00:35:03] because that's just going to create inflation.

[00:35:05] And at the same time,

[00:35:06] what you have is the Federal Reserve

[00:35:08] while they're doing that,

[00:35:09] they're also looking at bank supervision

[00:35:12] not through the lens of the safety

[00:35:14] and soundness of our financial system,

[00:35:16] but they're instead focused on things

[00:35:17] like climate and equity.

[00:35:18] So you had SVB fail for very simple reasons.

[00:35:23] They bought long-term securities

[00:35:25] funded by short-term deposits

[00:35:26] and when interest rates went up,

[00:35:28] the value of those long-term securities went down.

[00:35:30] They couldn't afford all of the increased interest costs

[00:35:35] associated with having really low returns

[00:35:37] on long-term assets.

[00:35:39] That's basic bank supervision.

[00:35:41] That's basic safety and soundness supervision.

[00:35:43] Were they doing that?

[00:35:45] No, they were focused on climate risk.

[00:35:47] They were focused on whether or not,

[00:35:49] you know, we were putting enough capital charges

[00:35:53] for oil and gas assets

[00:35:55] as if we can move away from oil and gas.

[00:35:57] So tip their eye off the ball

[00:35:59] because they're focused on the wrong things

[00:36:01] and then the other thing they're doing

[00:36:03] is they're looking to potentially generate

[00:36:04] a central bank digital currency.

[00:36:07] So have, you know,

[00:36:09] depositors put their money straight on deposit

[00:36:11] with the Federal Reserve

[00:36:12] so that the federal government

[00:36:13] can monitor every transaction

[00:36:15] in which somebody's engaged

[00:36:17] rather than it going through a private sector bank.

[00:36:19] So why is the Federal Reserve

[00:36:21] taking its eye off the basic responsibilities

[00:36:23] of price stability and bank supervision

[00:36:27] in order to involve itself

[00:36:28] in things like central bank digital currencies

[00:36:30] and climate inequity through this ESG agenda.

[00:36:34] And so it's no wonder that under their watch,

[00:36:36] we've had 40-year high inflation.

[00:36:38] We've had three of the four largest bank failures

[00:36:40] in the history of our country.

[00:36:42] And so we need to get back

[00:36:44] to Federal Reserve governors

[00:36:45] and a Federal Reserve board

[00:36:46] who is focused on the basic safety

[00:36:49] and soundness of our financial system.

[00:36:54] It's three of the four bank failures

[00:36:57] have been under this administration.

[00:36:58] Is that what you just said?

[00:37:00] Yeah, so if you look at the dollar amount

[00:37:01] of the banks that failed,

[00:37:04] the largest was during the financial crisis,

[00:37:06] but number two, three, and four

[00:37:08] were during the last three years.

[00:37:14] That's just, it's unbelievable.

[00:37:17] And I hope that people,

[00:37:20] as you said, they're going,

[00:37:21] gosh, it costs so much more.

[00:37:22] This is why everything costs so much more.

[00:37:24] These failures on the part of this administration

[00:37:28] is why we are suffering so much personally

[00:37:32] in our own homes.

[00:37:34] You talked about needing to make sure

[00:37:37] that we have healthy Americans.

[00:37:39] And one of the things that Kamala Harris did

[00:37:42] when she was senator

[00:37:43] was co-sponsor the Medicaid for all bill,

[00:37:47] which would have eliminated private health insurance

[00:37:49] for 200 million Americans.

[00:37:52] I don't think that is the solution

[00:37:54] to making sure that we have healthy Americans.

[00:37:57] What do you, how would you accomplish

[00:38:00] ensuring that we have healthy Americans

[00:38:02] who can afford their health care?

[00:38:05] That's right.

[00:38:06] So Vice President Harris, as you said,

[00:38:08] co-sponsored what you, I think,

[00:38:10] accurately deemed Medicaid for all

[00:38:12] and said, if you like your health insurance,

[00:38:14] you cannot keep it, unlike the promise

[00:38:17] that was made at the time of the Obamacare,

[00:38:19] which we knew was false at the time.

[00:38:21] And so when we think about healthy America,

[00:38:23] we think about what can we do to bring down

[00:38:26] the price of prescription drugs?

[00:38:27] What can we do to empower patients and their families

[00:38:31] rather than healthcare bureaucracies

[00:38:33] and insurance companies?

[00:38:34] You know, one of the things that happens is

[00:38:36] if you, depending upon whether you have a procedure done

[00:38:44] and so there are these crazy incentives

[00:38:46] in healthcare regulation that drive up the costs

[00:38:50] all by deciding, for instance,

[00:38:52] where do you get treated, right?

[00:38:53] So we have proposed something called site neutrality

[00:38:56] that says no matter whether it's at a doctor's office

[00:38:59] or a hospital, it ought to be reimbursed

[00:39:01] by the government by the same amount.

[00:39:04] We ought to expand health savings accounts.

[00:39:06] We ought to make it easier for people

[00:39:08] to buy catastrophic policies.

[00:39:10] You know, people in their 70s or, you know,

[00:39:14] their 60s should not be able to,

[00:39:16] they should not be forced to buy health insurance products

[00:39:20] that, you know, cover birth control pills

[00:39:23] or procedures that they are never going to use

[00:39:25] through these minimum coverage requirements.

[00:39:27] And so there are a lot of failures in Obamacare

[00:39:31] that under the leadership of Governor Jindal,

[00:39:34] who is the chair of our Center for Healthy America

[00:39:36] here at America First Policy Institute,

[00:39:38] they are doing a lot of strong work thinking about

[00:39:41] how can we drive down the price of things like hospital care,

[00:39:45] prescription drug prices, and really re-empower patients

[00:39:48] because if the American people are not healthy,

[00:39:51] then they're not happy and we can't generate economic growth

[00:39:54] and affordability that make prosperity possible.

[00:39:57] You mentioned getting prescription costs under control.

[00:40:02] And how do you think that you go about doing that?

[00:40:06] And one of the things that when Kamala Harris did talk about

[00:40:11] some of what she would do about the economy,

[00:40:15] she has talked about price gouging

[00:40:17] and about setting price controls.

[00:40:19] Do those work?

[00:40:22] And what is a better alternative?

[00:40:25] Yeah, so price controls do not work.

[00:40:26] And many times people will point at the Soviet Union

[00:40:29] or at Venezuela.

[00:40:30] I point to the 1970s here in the United States.

[00:40:34] So that was the last time we had massive out-of-control inflation

[00:40:38] and the federal government tried to come in

[00:40:40] and set price caps on gas and energy prices.

[00:40:46] And what happened?

[00:40:46] You had gas lines.

[00:40:47] Because when you don't allow prices to move,

[00:40:51] when you don't allow supply and demand

[00:40:53] to come to a new equilibrium,

[00:40:56] the alternative is you get shortages.

[00:40:58] And so you get lines, you get rationing,

[00:41:00] and that's why you generally want to allow adjustments

[00:41:04] to take place to prices

[00:41:06] so that you can bring the market back into equilibrium.

[00:41:10] What higher prices do is they encourage more supply

[00:41:13] to come online.

[00:41:14] Whereas if you cap prices,

[00:41:16] then you discourage additional production

[00:41:19] in order to meet those shortages.

[00:41:21] And what's particularly disconcerting

[00:41:23] about what the vice president has said

[00:41:26] is that the costs that supermarkets are passing along,

[00:41:32] again, have come from their regulations.

[00:41:34] What is one of the biggest contributors

[00:41:36] to the cost of food?

[00:41:38] It's energy.

[00:41:40] It's not just the gasoline that powers the tractor.

[00:41:44] But your viewers may not know

[00:41:46] one of the biggest inputs into fertilizer

[00:41:48] is natural gas.

[00:41:50] That's where we make it from.

[00:41:51] Then you've got the cost of transporting that produce

[00:41:54] from the farm to the supermarket

[00:41:56] and, of course, from your supermarket home.

[00:41:58] All of that shows up in the costs.

[00:42:01] And so when you look at the extent to which prices,

[00:42:04] the input prices for farmers

[00:42:06] and for grocery stores have gone up,

[00:42:08] the price increases for the consumer

[00:42:11] have been commensurate with the price increases

[00:42:14] of all of the inputs.

[00:42:15] There's no evidence that all of a sudden

[00:42:18] your local grocery store

[00:42:19] is profiteering off of you.

[00:42:22] We are not seeing major margin increases.

[00:42:24] These are very lean businesses.

[00:42:26] They operate on like 2% margins.

[00:42:28] And your local grocer

[00:42:30] is not all of a sudden rolling in the money.

[00:42:32] And the other question that I have asked,

[00:42:35] and I testified to the Senate Budget Committee

[00:42:38] about this about two years ago

[00:42:41] when they started saying,

[00:42:41] oh, it's all greedflation,

[00:42:43] Senator Sanders himself was the chair of the committee.

[00:42:47] Well, I pointed out to him

[00:42:48] the inflation started in March of 2021.

[00:42:53] There is a literal doubling in monthly inflation

[00:42:57] that began in March of 2021.

[00:43:00] Now, in order for that to have been caused

[00:43:02] by corporate profiteering or greedflation,

[00:43:05] the question I have is,

[00:43:06] why did it happen under the Biden-Harris administration?

[00:43:10] What did Biden and Harris all of a sudden

[00:43:13] allow corporations to generate profits

[00:43:15] in a way that the Trump administration didn't?

[00:43:18] I have been a finance professor since 2002.

[00:43:22] I have been studying

[00:43:23] corporate financial decision-making for decades.

[00:43:25] I am not aware of all of a sudden

[00:43:27] something that the Biden administration did in 2021

[00:43:31] that said, oh, now it's time for corporations

[00:43:33] to make profits in ways that they didn't

[00:43:36] under the Trump administration,

[00:43:37] under the Obama administration,

[00:43:39] under the Bush administration,

[00:43:40] under the Clinton administration.

[00:43:42] Instead, you have to look at what changed

[00:43:44] was the massive spending

[00:43:46] that they engaged in at the beginning

[00:43:48] of this administration.

[00:43:49] That's what changed,

[00:43:50] and it perfectly coincided with the inflation.

[00:43:53] So they don't want to take responsibility

[00:43:56] for their cause of inflation,

[00:43:58] the thing that's hurting the American people the most.

[00:44:00] They don't want to take responsibility for it,

[00:44:02] and so they need a scapegoat.

[00:44:04] And so the scapegoat is your local grocer,

[00:44:06] it's your local farmer,

[00:44:08] who are getting crushed under the same inflation

[00:44:10] that they have caused,

[00:44:11] and yet they're being demonized.

[00:44:14] They like to go back and see

[00:44:16] that it was all Trump's fault

[00:44:17] and it was COVID's fault.

[00:44:19] How is it different what Trump did

[00:44:21] while he was still president during COVID

[00:44:24] versus what happened in the first few months

[00:44:27] of the Biden-Harris administration?

[00:44:30] Yeah, so one of my roles

[00:44:32] as assistant secretary of the treasury

[00:44:34] was to lead the treasury implementation

[00:44:36] of the Paycheck Protection Program.

[00:44:38] So we worked hand in glove

[00:44:40] with the Small Business Administration

[00:44:41] on every aspect of PPP

[00:44:43] to help get money out

[00:44:45] to America's small businesses

[00:44:46] in order to maintain payroll

[00:44:48] for literally tens of millions of Americans.

[00:44:51] So did we spend money?

[00:44:52] Yes.

[00:44:53] We sent a couple trillion dollars

[00:44:55] of spending out into the economy

[00:44:57] in the second quarter of 2020.

[00:44:59] Now, what else happened

[00:45:00] in the second quarter of 2020?

[00:45:02] We had about a 30% annualized decline

[00:45:05] in national output

[00:45:06] because of the shutdowns.

[00:45:08] Having $2 trillion offset

[00:45:11] a 30% annualized decline in output,

[00:45:15] that's completely different

[00:45:16] than throwing $2 trillion into an economy

[00:45:19] that had more than 90% recovered.

[00:45:21] If you look at the economic output

[00:45:22] that was lost from the pandemic,

[00:45:24] more than 90% of it had come back

[00:45:26] by the time Joe Biden entered office.

[00:45:28] And yet they threw an additional $2 trillion

[00:45:30] into an economy, right?

[00:45:32] So again, when you have a massive gap

[00:45:34] in the economy from things

[00:45:36] like nationwide shutdowns,

[00:45:39] the need for that $2 trillion,

[00:45:41] the economic impact of that $2 trillion

[00:45:43] is fundamentally different

[00:45:45] than when you've got an economy

[00:45:47] that not only was largely recovered,

[00:45:49] but also had three new vaccines

[00:45:51] coming into place.

[00:45:52] So you had all of this pent-up demand,

[00:45:54] you had all of this savings

[00:45:56] that had been accumulated during the pandemic,

[00:45:58] you had the reopening that was going on

[00:46:00] because of vaccines.

[00:46:02] And so at a time that there was already

[00:46:04] going to be this surge of economic activity

[00:46:06] due to those reopenings

[00:46:08] and due to the discovery of those vaccines,

[00:46:10] the idea that you need to add

[00:46:11] $2 trillion more of gasoline

[00:46:13] onto that fire

[00:46:14] in the form of inflationary government spending

[00:46:17] gave you exactly the 9% inflation that we got.

[00:46:20] So I am exceptionally proud

[00:46:22] of the work that we did

[00:46:24] during the depths of the pandemic

[00:46:26] to save this country from a depression.

[00:46:28] And that is fundamentally different

[00:46:30] than throwing gasoline on a fire

[00:46:33] when the economy has largely recovered.

[00:46:36] Okay, thank you for answering that.

[00:46:40] Speaking of COVID,

[00:46:42] and maybe this is a question

[00:46:44] that isn't fair game, I don't know.

[00:46:45] But if you were looking back

[00:46:48] on what happened in 2020,

[00:46:50] what are things that you would do differently?

[00:46:53] What lessons did you learn

[00:46:55] that you think either worked well

[00:46:57] or that future generations

[00:47:00] should consider differently

[00:47:02] if they have to deal with a similar pandemic?

[00:47:05] Right.

[00:47:06] I think one of the biggest problems

[00:47:08] that we had is

[00:47:09] it was the dearth of information

[00:47:11] about who was going to be

[00:47:14] significantly impacted by COVID.

[00:47:18] I don't know, you know,

[00:47:19] I'm not a health expert.

[00:47:22] I don't know how much of it was

[00:47:24] that China was not sharing

[00:47:25] accurate information

[00:47:26] about who was particularly afflicted.

[00:47:30] I don't know how much of it was

[00:47:32] coming out of the NIH

[00:47:35] and some of the activities of Dr. Fauci.

[00:47:37] So I want to be careful there.

[00:47:38] But had we knew then what we know now,

[00:47:41] there was no reason to shut down the economy

[00:47:43] the way that it was.

[00:47:44] Because what instead needed to have been done

[00:47:47] is to safeguard the vulnerable.

[00:47:50] You know, our generation,

[00:47:52] our kids' generation,

[00:47:53] if you look at the learning loss

[00:47:55] that our kids have suffered

[00:47:56] because schools were shut down

[00:47:58] for up to a year and a half,

[00:48:00] they're not going to recover that.

[00:48:01] We have a permanent learning loss

[00:48:03] that our economy is going to struggle with

[00:48:06] for decades,

[00:48:07] all caused by government

[00:48:09] shutting down schools

[00:48:10] to a population

[00:48:12] that was not at all vulnerable.

[00:48:15] Why we shut down the schools

[00:48:17] instead of, you know,

[00:48:19] isolating those with comorbidities,

[00:48:22] those who already had,

[00:48:23] you know, pre-existing health conditions

[00:48:25] and were therefore most vulnerable,

[00:48:27] that would have been

[00:48:28] a much less expensive

[00:48:30] and much more healthy

[00:48:33] way to have addressed it.

[00:48:36] But what we were told was that these,

[00:48:38] we were told on the econ side

[00:48:40] that these public health activities

[00:48:42] were necessary.

[00:48:44] You know, the statements coming out of

[00:48:45] Dr. Birx and Dr. Fauci at the time

[00:48:48] were that we needed social distancing

[00:48:51] and we needed to give

[00:48:52] the healthcare professionals

[00:48:54] enough time to kind of,

[00:48:58] to learn more about

[00:48:59] how to treat the virus

[00:49:00] and to scale up

[00:49:02] their ability to

[00:49:04] address those that were infected

[00:49:05] and give some time

[00:49:07] for maybe some therapeutics

[00:49:09] to be identified.

[00:49:10] And they therefore needed

[00:49:11] to slow the spread.

[00:49:13] And the way to slow the spread

[00:49:15] was massive shutdowns.

[00:49:16] Once you tell us

[00:49:17] that we're going to have

[00:49:18] massive shutdowns

[00:49:19] then,

[00:49:20] that are caused by the government,

[00:49:22] then of course,

[00:49:23] the econ people

[00:49:23] are going to come in and say,

[00:49:24] well, we need to provide

[00:49:25] substitute sources of income

[00:49:27] because in the depths

[00:49:29] of a pandemic

[00:49:30] that's spread by airborne contact,

[00:49:32] you can't have red lines.

[00:49:35] And so you're going to need

[00:49:36] to have those paychecks

[00:49:37] continuing to flow.

[00:49:38] And so we put together

[00:49:39] very, very quickly.

[00:49:41] We work with Congress

[00:49:42] enormously quickly

[00:49:43] under Secretary Mnuchin's

[00:49:44] extraordinary leadership.

[00:49:46] We got a $2 trillion package

[00:49:47] through the Congress in weeks.

[00:49:49] And then the secretary came to us,

[00:49:51] to his senior leadership team

[00:49:52] at Treasury

[00:49:53] and said,

[00:49:54] you guys have,

[00:49:55] in the case of the

[00:49:56] Paycheck Protection Program,

[00:49:57] a week to get it up and running

[00:49:59] because the American people

[00:50:00] can't wait a month.

[00:50:02] We have got to make sure

[00:50:03] that people can,

[00:50:04] if states and localities

[00:50:06] are shutting down,

[00:50:07] we can't have

[00:50:09] paychecks cease.

[00:50:10] We can't have

[00:50:11] bank accounts run out of money.

[00:50:13] We can't be creating desperation

[00:50:15] that then is going to exacerbate

[00:50:17] what we were being told

[00:50:18] was the public health situation.

[00:50:19] I think that what you said

[00:50:22] is extremely important.

[00:50:24] The information that we had

[00:50:27] about the virus was wrong.

[00:50:29] And the media had a perverse incentive

[00:50:34] in continuing to scare people

[00:50:37] rather than factually conveying

[00:50:39] information that was known

[00:50:41] pretty early into the situation,

[00:50:44] maybe not in the first week or two,

[00:50:45] but it was known fairly quickly

[00:50:48] in this situation.

[00:50:49] These are the most vulnerable.

[00:50:51] These are the least vulnerable.

[00:50:52] But the media

[00:50:53] had this very perverse incentive

[00:50:56] to keep those numbers

[00:50:57] of potential deaths

[00:50:59] and the spread of COVID

[00:51:01] and the tests that tested positive

[00:51:04] going up, up, up, up, up

[00:51:05] to get more people watching

[00:51:08] their programming

[00:51:09] rather than actually

[00:51:11] conveying factual information.

[00:51:13] And I think that you're right,

[00:51:14] that spread of misinformation

[00:51:17] on behalf of whoever it was,

[00:51:22] Fauci, Birx and others,

[00:51:24] tied with the media,

[00:51:26] tied with social media companies

[00:51:28] preventing accurate information

[00:51:31] or contrary information

[00:51:33] from being out in the public

[00:51:34] even for consideration and discussion.

[00:51:37] I think that those are

[00:51:39] some of the worst problems

[00:51:41] because because of that,

[00:51:43] it led to so many other

[00:51:45] terrible problems.

[00:51:47] That's absolutely correct.

[00:51:48] If you look at the censorship

[00:51:49] that took place

[00:51:50] in collusion between

[00:51:52] some of our public,

[00:51:53] so-called public health experts

[00:51:54] with the media companies

[00:51:56] in order to silence

[00:51:58] those who had

[00:51:59] different perspectives,

[00:52:00] it ended up being

[00:52:01] enormously costly

[00:52:02] from a public policy

[00:52:04] decision-making standpoint

[00:52:05] and generated an enormous amount

[00:52:07] of misinformation out there.

[00:52:09] And what's shocking

[00:52:10] is that rather than

[00:52:12] learning those lessons

[00:52:14] and perhaps recognizing

[00:52:16] that it's during those events

[00:52:19] that we need dialogue

[00:52:20] and differing perspectives

[00:52:22] the most,

[00:52:23] you have a Biden-Harris administration

[00:52:25] that wants to double down

[00:52:26] and continuing to engage

[00:52:28] in censorship, right?

[00:52:30] I mean, you look at,

[00:52:31] and it's not just here

[00:52:32] in the United States, right?

[00:52:33] You look at the threats

[00:52:34] to these social media companies

[00:52:37] coming from governments everywhere.

[00:52:38] This kind of censorship

[00:52:40] is extraordinarily problematic.

[00:52:43] And, you know,

[00:52:44] I don't know about you,

[00:52:45] but I remember reading

[00:52:46] the book 1984

[00:52:47] back when I was in school.

[00:52:49] And, you know,

[00:52:49] you talk about

[00:52:50] having the government

[00:52:51] be the moderator

[00:52:52] of information content.

[00:52:55] We thought it was fantastical

[00:52:57] at the time,

[00:52:57] and yet that's what we have

[00:52:58] coming out of

[00:52:59] the Biden-Harris administration.

[00:53:00] And the collusion

[00:53:02] that goes on

[00:53:03] in order to,

[00:53:04] you know,

[00:53:05] keep extraordinarily

[00:53:06] relevant information

[00:53:08] away from the American people

[00:53:09] and slant it in favor

[00:53:11] of one government philosophy

[00:53:12] over another,

[00:53:13] that's extraordinarily problematic.

[00:53:16] And our founders recognized

[00:53:17] that that was one

[00:53:18] of the biggest threats

[00:53:19] to democracy.

[00:53:20] The First Amendment

[00:53:21] is the First Amendment

[00:53:22] for a reason.

[00:53:23] And yet we have

[00:53:24] the government colluding

[00:53:26] with major tech companies

[00:53:27] and media companies

[00:53:28] to try to keep

[00:53:30] relevant information

[00:53:31] and differing points of view

[00:53:33] away from the American people.

[00:53:35] And that's why

[00:53:35] a lot of the work

[00:53:36] that we're,

[00:53:37] my colleagues here at AFPI

[00:53:38] are doing

[00:53:39] on government weaponization

[00:53:40] and censorship

[00:53:41] is so critical

[00:53:42] because it's important

[00:53:44] that the American people

[00:53:45] have the full breadth

[00:53:46] of information

[00:53:47] as they make

[00:53:48] exceptionally critical decisions

[00:53:50] this November.

[00:53:51] This election

[00:53:51] could not be more stark

[00:53:53] when it comes to

[00:53:53] the economic visions

[00:53:55] for our country

[00:53:56] coming out of

[00:53:57] the America First

[00:53:59] candidate

[00:54:00] versus the America

[00:54:01] Last candidate.

[00:54:02] You are exactly

[00:54:04] right about that.

[00:54:06] I want to ask you

[00:54:07] a couple more very,

[00:54:08] they're not super long

[00:54:09] questions,

[00:54:10] but I think that

[00:54:11] they're relevant.

[00:54:12] Just this past week

[00:54:13] we're seeing news

[00:54:15] and we may not air

[00:54:15] this for a few weeks

[00:54:16] so it may be

[00:54:17] a little bit old

[00:54:18] by the time we air it,

[00:54:20] but California

[00:54:21] is talking about

[00:54:22] providing $150,000

[00:54:24] to people,

[00:54:25] to non-citizens

[00:54:26] who are here illegally

[00:54:29] to be able

[00:54:30] to buy houses

[00:54:32] and Kamala Harris

[00:54:34] has said

[00:54:34] she wants to be able

[00:54:35] to give $25,000

[00:54:36] to people

[00:54:37] for their first,

[00:54:38] their down payment

[00:54:39] on their first home.

[00:54:41] I know the answer

[00:54:43] to it,

[00:54:43] but I just want

[00:54:43] to hear you explain

[00:54:45] why is this

[00:54:46] such a bad idea?

[00:54:47] Right,

[00:54:48] so remember

[00:54:49] what caused

[00:54:49] the inflation

[00:54:50] in the first place

[00:54:51] was that we didn't

[00:54:52] do anything

[00:54:52] about output,

[00:54:53] we didn't do anything

[00:54:54] about the supply

[00:54:55] of goods and services,

[00:54:56] but we threw money

[00:54:57] at it.

[00:54:58] And so again,

[00:54:59] if you've got

[00:55:00] the same amount

[00:55:01] of goods and services,

[00:55:02] but more money

[00:55:03] chasing that same

[00:55:04] goods and services,

[00:55:05] the only way

[00:55:06] that you're going

[00:55:07] to then be able

[00:55:08] to allocate

[00:55:09] all of those goods

[00:55:11] and services

[00:55:11] that are produced

[00:55:12] is to raise

[00:55:13] the price of everything.

[00:55:14] And so the same

[00:55:16] type of inflation

[00:55:17] that we got

[00:55:18] under Biden-Harris,

[00:55:20] Vice President Harris

[00:55:21] is now saying

[00:55:22] we need more of it

[00:55:23] because when you

[00:55:24] don't do anything

[00:55:24] about why is housing

[00:55:25] so expensive

[00:55:26] in the first place

[00:55:27] and instead

[00:55:28] what you do

[00:55:28] is you say,

[00:55:29] hey, everybody,

[00:55:30] here's $25,000.

[00:55:32] Okay, again,

[00:55:32] last time I looked,

[00:55:33] if I have $25,000 more

[00:55:35] but so does everybody else,

[00:55:37] then isn't the price

[00:55:38] going to just go up

[00:55:38] by $25,000

[00:55:40] and everybody's

[00:55:41] going to get

[00:55:41] the same thing

[00:55:42] that they were

[00:55:42] previously going to get?

[00:55:43] So we massively

[00:55:44] increase the debt,

[00:55:45] we borrow more money

[00:55:46] from abroad,

[00:55:47] we just raise prices

[00:55:48] in the process.

[00:55:50] What instead

[00:55:50] we need to do

[00:55:51] is take the burdens

[00:55:52] off of home builders,

[00:55:53] take the burdens

[00:55:54] off of manufacturers.

[00:55:56] Let's get the cost

[00:55:57] of building houses down.

[00:55:59] So,

[00:56:00] but she doesn't

[00:56:01] want to do that, right?

[00:56:02] They want to put in place

[00:56:03] green zoning requirements

[00:56:05] and green energy requirements

[00:56:07] and, you know,

[00:56:08] take away

[00:56:09] the less expensive gas,

[00:56:11] the less expensive

[00:56:12] natural gas

[00:56:13] stove and require

[00:56:14] that it be an electric stove

[00:56:15] and they want to,

[00:56:16] they very much believe

[00:56:18] that every problem

[00:56:19] in society

[00:56:20] just merely requires

[00:56:21] an elite government

[00:56:22] bureaucrat

[00:56:23] to make that decision

[00:56:24] uniformly for the

[00:56:25] entire country

[00:56:26] and they don't seem

[00:56:27] to care that it just

[00:56:28] runs up the cost

[00:56:29] of everything

[00:56:29] because they'll just

[00:56:30] borrow more money

[00:56:31] and throw more

[00:56:32] government subsidies

[00:56:32] at it.

[00:56:33] That's right.

[00:56:34] And if it worked,

[00:56:35] if the government

[00:56:36] could decide

[00:56:37] every single decision

[00:56:39] that a business

[00:56:39] would make

[00:56:40] and make it work

[00:56:42] and make those

[00:56:43] businesses work well,

[00:56:45] then when everything

[00:56:46] shut down during COVID,

[00:56:48] we wouldn't have had

[00:56:48] any problems at all

[00:56:49] because the government

[00:56:50] would have been able

[00:56:51] to just decide

[00:56:52] everything,

[00:56:54] how it all

[00:56:55] was supposed to work.

[00:56:56] But the fact is

[00:56:57] when the government

[00:56:58] shut down

[00:57:01] and businesses

[00:57:02] and bureaucrats

[00:57:03] and people

[00:57:04] who've never had

[00:57:04] to make payroll,

[00:57:06] never had to pay taxes

[00:57:07] for payroll taxes,

[00:57:09] never had to worry

[00:57:10] about have I brought

[00:57:11] in enough money

[00:57:12] so I can pay

[00:57:13] all the employees

[00:57:15] much less

[00:57:15] all the other expenses,

[00:57:17] they're making decisions

[00:57:19] that they don't even

[00:57:19] understand the ripple

[00:57:21] effect that their

[00:57:22] decisions have.

[00:57:23] Saying we have

[00:57:24] to have

[00:57:24] the electric vehicles.

[00:57:28] Well,

[00:57:28] if you mandate

[00:57:30] and you say

[00:57:30] that every single

[00:57:31] American has to have

[00:57:32] an electric vehicle

[00:57:33] that weighs more,

[00:57:35] that puts more strain

[00:57:37] on our roads

[00:57:38] and on our bridges

[00:57:39] than those local

[00:57:40] municipalities

[00:57:41] we were just talking

[00:57:42] about a little while ago

[00:57:43] are going to have

[00:57:44] even more costs

[00:57:45] because they're going

[00:57:45] to have to go back in

[00:57:46] and repave their roads

[00:57:48] and rebuild their bridges.

[00:57:49] There are consequences

[00:57:50] to all of it

[00:57:52] that sitting in some

[00:57:53] office building

[00:57:54] in Washington, D.C.

[00:57:56] or your state capital,

[00:57:58] making these kind

[00:57:59] of decisions,

[00:58:00] it doesn't work.

[00:58:02] There are,

[00:58:03] the economy works best

[00:58:05] when the government

[00:58:06] takes its hands off

[00:58:07] and businesses

[00:58:08] can come up

[00:58:09] with the best solutions

[00:58:10] and the most competitive

[00:58:12] solutions thrive.

[00:58:14] That's right.

[00:58:15] If that system worked,

[00:58:17] the Soviet Union

[00:58:17] would still be,

[00:58:18] would today be

[00:58:19] the dominant economic

[00:58:20] and military power

[00:58:21] of this globe.

[00:58:22] instead,

[00:58:24] it went bankrupt

[00:58:25] because that's

[00:58:26] the inevitable outcome

[00:58:27] when you undermine

[00:58:29] innovation,

[00:58:30] when you discourage growth,

[00:58:32] when you instead

[00:58:34] empower elite bureaucrats

[00:58:36] who think they know

[00:58:37] how to make decisions

[00:58:37] better than individual

[00:58:39] Americans

[00:58:39] who are running

[00:58:40] their own lives

[00:58:41] and those individual

[00:58:42] entrepreneurs

[00:58:43] from whom we get

[00:58:44] the innovation.

[00:58:46] All right.

[00:58:46] Last question.

[00:58:48] I want to follow up

[00:58:49] on one thing

[00:58:49] about what you just said.

[00:58:51] I hope,

[00:58:52] I hope that the American

[00:58:54] people are smart enough,

[00:58:55] not just in this election,

[00:58:57] but we're going to be

[00:58:57] dealing with

[00:59:00] government control

[00:59:01] and Marxist policies

[00:59:02] versus free market

[00:59:04] policies

[00:59:05] and liberty

[00:59:06] and capitalism

[00:59:07] for,

[00:59:08] for many more

[00:59:09] elections to come,

[00:59:10] I think.

[00:59:11] And I hope

[00:59:12] that we're smart enough

[00:59:13] to learn from

[00:59:14] the mistakes

[00:59:15] that other countries

[00:59:16] like the Soviet Union

[00:59:17] made so we don't have

[00:59:18] to go and relive

[00:59:20] those mistakes

[00:59:21] painfully in our own time.

[00:59:23] All right.

[00:59:24] The very last question

[00:59:25] I have for you,

[00:59:26] the Biden administration

[00:59:28] seems to put out

[00:59:30] glowing numbers

[00:59:31] about the economy

[00:59:32] or even sometimes

[00:59:33] they're not good numbers

[00:59:34] about the economy.

[00:59:35] And then a few weeks later

[00:59:37] or a few months later,

[00:59:39] we find out

[00:59:40] that those numbers

[00:59:40] were completely wrong.

[00:59:42] We have seen

[00:59:43] that the number

[00:59:43] of jobs created

[00:59:44] has been drastically reduced

[00:59:47] by over three quarters

[00:59:48] of a million jobs.

[00:59:50] Have you ever seen

[00:59:52] anything like this before

[00:59:53] from government reporting?

[00:59:55] And how can we even have,

[00:59:58] I think that those,

[01:00:00] it's my,

[01:00:01] just looking at it all

[01:00:02] from kind of

[01:00:03] a high level perspective,

[01:00:05] one of the things

[01:00:06] I keep hearing pollsters

[01:00:07] and the news say is,

[01:00:09] well, the economy

[01:00:10] is great,

[01:00:10] but the American people

[01:00:11] just don't seem

[01:00:12] to believe it.

[01:00:13] Well, maybe they

[01:00:14] don't believe it

[01:00:15] because what the reporting

[01:00:16] about the economy,

[01:00:17] it's actually wrong.

[01:00:19] And the sentiment

[01:00:20] that Americans have

[01:00:21] is actually

[01:00:22] what's truly going on

[01:00:24] with the economy

[01:00:24] right now.

[01:00:25] That's right.

[01:00:26] I mean,

[01:00:26] this notion coming out

[01:00:27] of the Biden-Harris

[01:00:28] administration,

[01:00:29] don't believe your eyes,

[01:00:31] believe our government

[01:00:32] statistics,

[01:00:32] is really undermining

[01:00:33] any confidence

[01:00:34] that people previously had.

[01:00:36] Now,

[01:00:37] I don't want to suggest

[01:00:39] that there's been

[01:00:39] political malfeasance

[01:00:41] associated with

[01:00:42] the numbers at all.

[01:00:43] I have enormous faith

[01:00:45] in the people

[01:00:47] who work

[01:00:47] at the Bureau

[01:00:48] of Labor Statistics.

[01:00:49] They are consummate

[01:00:51] professionals

[01:00:51] that are going out

[01:00:53] and doing their best

[01:00:54] to estimate it.

[01:00:55] My belief

[01:00:56] on what happened

[01:00:57] with the jobs numbers

[01:00:58] is that,

[01:01:00] okay,

[01:01:00] so what they do

[01:01:01] every month

[01:01:01] is they call up

[01:01:02] a bunch of businesses

[01:01:03] and say,

[01:01:03] how many people

[01:01:04] work for you?

[01:01:05] But, of course,

[01:01:06] they don't call

[01:01:06] every business

[01:01:07] and so they have

[01:01:07] to project it

[01:01:08] from the sample

[01:01:11] that they get a hold

[01:01:12] of people on the phone

[01:01:13] to the entire country.

[01:01:15] And to the extent

[01:01:16] that they thought

[01:01:17] there were more businesses

[01:01:18] than there actually are,

[01:01:20] then their projection

[01:01:21] is going to be too big.

[01:01:23] Now,

[01:01:23] why might their projection

[01:01:25] of the number

[01:01:25] of actual businesses

[01:01:27] be too big?

[01:01:28] Well,

[01:01:28] I have two theories

[01:01:29] for you

[01:01:29] and I don't yet know.

[01:01:30] We're still trying

[01:01:31] to figure this out

[01:01:32] but I will just hypothesize.

[01:01:34] One hypothesis

[01:01:35] is that on the front end

[01:01:36] of a recession,

[01:01:37] businesses are going

[01:01:38] to be shutting down

[01:01:39] and the Bureau

[01:01:40] of Labor Statistics

[01:01:40] doesn't know

[01:01:41] that those businesses

[01:01:42] have closed.

[01:01:43] And so they think

[01:01:44] there are more businesses

[01:01:45] than there actually are

[01:01:46] because the data

[01:01:48] hadn't come in yet,

[01:01:49] right?

[01:01:49] And so,

[01:01:49] by the way,

[01:01:50] why is there then

[01:01:51] a downward revision?

[01:01:52] Well,

[01:01:52] because on the front end

[01:01:54] you use the survey approach

[01:01:55] but on the back end

[01:01:56] you can then compare it

[01:01:58] to how many people

[01:01:59] actually had payroll taxes,

[01:02:01] social security taxes

[01:02:02] withheld from paychecks.

[01:02:03] So we eventually

[01:02:04] get better data

[01:02:05] but the initial data

[01:02:07] has got noise in it

[01:02:08] because again,

[01:02:09] you're going from a sample

[01:02:10] and you're projecting

[01:02:10] onto a population.

[01:02:12] So one theory

[01:02:13] is that businesses

[01:02:13] are shutting down

[01:02:14] and they just don't know

[01:02:15] that we're on the front end

[01:02:17] of a bunch of business closures.

[01:02:18] Okay?

[01:02:19] That's one explanation.

[01:02:20] Second one,

[01:02:22] I think that there are more

[01:02:23] businesses

[01:02:25] out there

[01:02:26] on paper

[01:02:27] than actually exist.

[01:02:29] Okay?

[01:02:30] So one of the unfortunate

[01:02:31] things that happened

[01:02:32] during the pandemic

[01:02:32] is that Congress created

[01:02:34] something called

[01:02:34] an employee retention tax credit

[01:02:36] and you may have seen

[01:02:38] even advertisements

[01:02:38] on TV

[01:02:39] for servicers

[01:02:41] who are helping people

[01:02:42] get their ERTC.

[01:02:44] How many fictitious businesses

[01:02:46] were created

[01:02:47] to claim bogus ERTC credits?

[01:02:51] And so

[01:02:51] does the Bureau of Labor

[01:02:53] statistic

[01:02:53] take as fact

[01:02:55] that those are actually

[01:02:56] businesses

[01:02:57] when they aren't

[01:02:58] and so then

[01:02:59] when they have

[01:03:00] too many businesses

[01:03:01] and they project

[01:03:02] the survey

[01:03:02] onto the population

[01:03:03] they get too many jobs

[01:03:05] and so then

[01:03:05] lo and behold

[01:03:06] when you then later

[01:03:07] compare it to

[01:03:08] social security data

[01:03:09] it doesn't match.

[01:03:10] I actually think

[01:03:11] that the combination

[01:03:11] of those two things

[01:03:12] are what's going on

[01:03:13] and again

[01:03:14] I don't blame

[01:03:15] the Bureau of Labor

[01:03:16] statistics for it

[01:03:16] they are just

[01:03:17] doing their best

[01:03:19] to forecast

[01:03:20] off of these surveys

[01:03:21] what's going on

[01:03:22] in the broader population

[01:03:23] and there's errors

[01:03:24] that have

[01:03:25] explanations for it.

[01:03:27] Okay

[01:03:27] and that makes sense

[01:03:28] and perhaps

[01:03:28] when I said

[01:03:30] when I implied

[01:03:31] that I haven't seen

[01:03:33] these kind of adjustments

[01:03:34] really

[01:03:35] really haven't

[01:03:36] I don't recall seeing it

[01:03:37] but that would be

[01:03:38] in my own adult

[01:03:39] in my own adulthood

[01:03:42] but maybe

[01:03:43] and I don't know

[01:03:44] this for a fact

[01:03:44] but maybe if we went back

[01:03:45] and looked at the 1970s

[01:03:47] or if the 1970s

[01:03:49] were trying to project

[01:03:50] and predict

[01:03:50] and have the statistics

[01:03:52] we're trying to get today

[01:03:53] they may have run into

[01:03:55] the same kind of problems

[01:03:56] for the reason

[01:03:57] you just said

[01:03:58] like the recession

[01:03:59] business is closed

[01:04:00] but you don't know

[01:04:02] that they've closed yet

[01:04:03] so that makes

[01:04:04] it gives me

[01:04:06] a little bit more confidence

[01:04:07] in the people

[01:04:07] who work for the government

[01:04:08] I still think

[01:04:10] that the public sentiment

[01:04:12] about the economy

[01:04:13] is probably

[01:04:14] a very good indicator

[01:04:16] of whether things

[01:04:17] really are better or not.

[01:04:19] Yeah I agree

[01:04:19] with you entirely

[01:04:20] the public knows

[01:04:21] what's going on

[01:04:21] on their streets

[01:04:22] and among their friends

[01:04:23] and their family members

[01:04:24] and you know

[01:04:26] government

[01:04:26] you can have

[01:04:27] any government statistic

[01:04:28] you want

[01:04:28] but that's not going

[01:04:29] to change the reality

[01:04:31] that people have

[01:04:32] they see their paychecks

[01:04:33] they see shortages

[01:04:34] on the grocery store shelves

[01:04:36] they see how much

[01:04:37] higher gas prices are

[01:04:38] and going to them

[01:04:39] and saying

[01:04:40] you know

[01:04:41] oh inflation's not 9%

[01:04:43] it's 3% now

[01:04:44] so see things

[01:04:45] are getting better

[01:04:45] no because the 9%

[01:04:47] inflation didn't go away

[01:04:48] remember the 3%

[01:04:50] inflation is on top

[01:04:51] of the 9%

[01:04:52] so they're trying

[01:04:54] to gaslight

[01:04:54] the American people

[01:04:55] into saying

[01:04:55] oh we've solved everything

[01:04:57] give us another 4 years

[01:04:58] when no

[01:05:00] those same problems

[01:05:01] still exist

[01:05:02] and telling them

[01:05:03] that the reality

[01:05:04] that they're living

[01:05:05] is not the truth

[01:05:06] is not going to work

[01:05:08] that is exactly right

[01:05:11] and it hasn't worked

[01:05:12] and we've seen that

[01:05:14] Michael

[01:05:14] this discussion

[01:05:15] has been really

[01:05:16] I've enjoyed it a lot

[01:05:18] I love talking

[01:05:19] about the economy

[01:05:20] I love asking questions

[01:05:21] about it

[01:05:21] and I appreciate

[01:05:22] your time today

[01:05:23] are there any closing comments

[01:05:25] that you want

[01:05:26] want to give

[01:05:28] and then of course

[01:05:29] how can people

[01:05:30] follow you

[01:05:30] and get more information

[01:05:31] about the work

[01:05:32] you're doing

[01:05:32] sure

[01:05:33] so as I mentioned

[01:05:34] at the outset

[01:05:35] I think that there are

[01:05:36] starkly different visions

[01:05:38] for economic policy

[01:05:40] going forward

[01:05:41] and that we have

[01:05:42] a critical

[01:05:43] we're at a critical

[01:05:44] juncture

[01:05:44] that these two

[01:05:45] different directions

[01:05:46] lead to two

[01:05:47] very different outcomes

[01:05:48] and so

[01:05:49] I think it's critically

[01:05:50] important that

[01:05:51] the American people

[01:05:52] give enormous

[01:05:52] consideration

[01:05:53] to what type of

[01:05:54] future they want

[01:05:55] to have

[01:05:56] and who is going

[01:05:57] to implement

[01:05:57] the types of

[01:05:58] economic policies

[01:05:58] that are going

[01:05:59] to realize

[01:05:59] the type of

[01:06:00] prosperity

[01:06:01] that they

[01:06:01] deserve

[01:06:03] in terms of

[01:06:03] following us

[01:06:04] you can follow

[01:06:05] us at

[01:06:05] A1 policy

[01:06:06] and you can also

[01:06:07] find us at

[01:06:08] America first

[01:06:09] policy dot com

[01:06:10] and we've got

[01:06:11] 20 different

[01:06:12] research centers

[01:06:13] doing an enormous

[01:06:13] amount of work

[01:06:14] to identify

[01:06:15] how to put

[01:06:16] the American people

[01:06:17] first

[01:06:17] and once again

[01:06:18] realize the type

[01:06:19] of success

[01:06:20] that we had

[01:06:21] the last time

[01:06:22] we had an

[01:06:23] America first

[01:06:23] administration

[01:06:24] in the White House

[01:06:25] thank you so much

[01:06:26] for joining me

[01:06:27] today Michael

[01:06:27] great to be with you

[01:06:28] The Jenny Beth

[01:06:30] Show is hosted

[01:06:31] by Jenny Beth

[01:06:32] Martin

[01:06:32] produced by

[01:06:34] Kevin Mooneyham

[01:06:34] and directed

[01:06:36] by Luke Livingston

[01:06:37] The Jenny Beth

[01:06:39] Show is a

[01:06:39] production of

[01:06:40] Tea Party

[01:06:40] Patriots Action

[01:06:41] for more

[01:06:43] information

[01:06:43] visit

[01:06:44] teapartypatriots.org

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