Reagan's Legacy in Modern Conservatism Part 2 | Craig Shirley, Author and Historian

[00:00:00] It's who thought about SDI, who thought about enterprise zones, who thought about tax cuts, who thought about all these other initiatives that were designed to take power away from the state and give it back to the individual. And it was all done creatively. And it was all done because of the American Conservative Movement and the movement led by Ronald Reagan.

[00:00:21] Keeping our Republic is on the line and it requires patriots with great passion, dedication and eternal vigilance to preserve our freedoms. Jenny Beth Martin is the co-founder of Tea Party Patriots. She's an author, a filmmaker and one of Time Magazine's most influential people in the world. But the title she is most proud of is mom to her boy girl twins. She has been at the forefront fighting to protect America's core principles for more than a decade.

[00:00:50] Welcome to The Jenny Beth Show.

[00:00:53] Ever wondered how a single man's vision could reshape an entire nation's future? Today, we'll continue our conversation with Craig Shirley, the New York Times bestselling author and renowned Reagan historian.

[00:01:05] In the second part of our two-part series, Craig delves deeper into the remarkable presidency of Ronald Reagan. We'll explore how Reagan's strategies not only defeated the Soviet Union, but also revived the American economy.

[00:01:18] Craig shares stories from behind the scenes of the Reagan administration, offering a unique glimpse into the decisions that defined an era.

[00:01:27] If you thought part one was captivating, you're in for an even greater treat as we uncover more of Reagan's legacy and his lasting impact on American politics.

[00:01:36] Earlier in the interview, you mentioned something about being involved with SDI and Ronald Reagan.

[00:01:41] Talk about why was the Strategic Defense Initiative important and what happened during Reagan's presidency regarding that?

[00:01:52] It upset the balance.

[00:01:53] You know, we'd have been operating in a state of what was called mutually assured destruction, right?

[00:01:58] If we push the button and the Soviets push the button and we wipe out everybody.

[00:02:03] And that was the way we operated from the 1950s up until the early 1980s.

[00:02:09] And SDI was, Reagan always hated, you know, a yin or yang choice.

[00:02:14] He liked third options, right?

[00:02:16] He liked the third, you know, I don't want to just take one from column A or one from column B.

[00:02:22] I want to see what's over here in column C.

[00:02:23] And SDI was a new argument to nuclear war, which is that we can knock down Soviet missiles and never have them hit American homeland.

[00:02:34] And we can win the Cold War that way.

[00:02:38] We can actually defeat the Soviets.

[00:02:39] And SDI is that the Soviets believe, and we did, believe Americans had, they had the technology to pull it off.

[00:02:48] With the ground-based system, with the space-based system, with other forms of interception, is that we had the technology to knock down Soviet missiles.

[00:02:59] And this scared, which is why Gorbachev, why the famous Reykjavik meeting broke down.

[00:03:05] You know, can you imagine Gorbachev going back to the Soviet generals and saying, because the proposal on the table was getting rid of, the Soviets say, we'll get rid of these intermediate-range nuclear missiles if you get rid of SDI.

[00:03:21] You get your research and development.

[00:03:23] Now, SDI was just a theory then.

[00:03:24] It wasn't practical.

[00:03:25] It was just theory.

[00:03:27] And Reagan says no.

[00:03:28] And so, can you imagine Gorbachev going back to his Soviet generals and says, no, I didn't take the American's offer to get rid of missiles because Reagan wouldn't give up his theory.

[00:03:43] What?

[00:03:44] Yeah.

[00:03:45] Real hard.

[00:03:46] Right.

[00:03:47] Real hard exchanges in exchange for an idea.

[00:03:50] Right.

[00:03:51] But Reagan knew that Americans could develop the technology.

[00:03:54] And the technology exists today, Iron Dome over Israel.

[00:03:59] We all saw it when all those missiles were coming in from Iran.

[00:04:02] And we saw the Israeli missiles knocking them down.

[00:04:07] Right.

[00:04:08] And we saw it also in the beginning of the Gulf War, right?

[00:04:11] Yes.

[00:04:11] We saw the same.

[00:04:12] Smart bombs.

[00:04:12] Yeah.

[00:04:13] Right.

[00:04:13] Yes.

[00:04:13] Yeah.

[00:04:13] Right.

[00:04:14] Yeah.

[00:04:14] It was all research and theory.

[00:04:16] And you talked about the Wright brothers.

[00:04:18] And you talked about the different things that we've developed in our country.

[00:04:22] Right.

[00:04:22] And also about the founders.

[00:04:25] One of the things, and I did a whole, I've done documentaries too on this and a whole different

[00:04:31] podcast series on this, but the patent system and intellectual property in America and the

[00:04:37] way that we treat intellectual property, the property in somebody's mind.

[00:04:41] Yes.

[00:04:42] Yes.

[00:04:42] As the same as this land.

[00:04:44] Yes.

[00:04:44] It's tangible.

[00:04:45] It is something that had never been done before our founders.

[00:04:49] You know, it's interesting you mentioned the patent office.

[00:04:52] During the War of 1812, when the British burned all of Washington, they burned the

[00:04:56] Capitol.

[00:04:57] They burned the White House.

[00:04:58] They burned all the federal buildings.

[00:05:00] They burned many residential buildings.

[00:05:02] The one building they didn't burn was the patent office.

[00:05:06] Wow.

[00:05:06] Because they wanted the ideas.

[00:05:08] Right.

[00:05:08] They wanted the ideas to take them back to England.

[00:05:10] And the interesting thing about the way our patent system works is that in order to protect

[00:05:15] that property and to have the exclusive right to it, the way that we do that is we say,

[00:05:20] you have to show it to the whole world.

[00:05:22] You have to tell your idea to the whole entire world.

[00:05:24] Right.

[00:05:25] And display it for everybody.

[00:05:26] But in a change for letting everyone see that so they can develop and innovate on top of it,

[00:05:31] you get to own it exclusively.

[00:05:33] But there's one underlying principle which guides invention.

[00:05:39] The profit motive.

[00:05:40] Right.

[00:05:41] Right?

[00:05:41] That's right.

[00:05:42] Is that if you don't get profit, why bother?

[00:05:44] That's right.

[00:05:44] This is why the Soviet Union lagged behind us in terms of everything, because they didn't

[00:05:49] have a profit motive.

[00:05:50] Right.

[00:05:51] If you have a profit motive, you have creativity.

[00:05:54] You have ingenuity.

[00:05:54] You have inventions.

[00:05:56] You have progress.

[00:05:57] And that's why the exclusive right is so important.

[00:06:00] Yeah.

[00:06:00] And the exclusive right with the patents is so important, because then you can rent it,

[00:06:04] you can sell it, you can lease it.

[00:06:05] You can license it.

[00:06:06] Yeah.

[00:06:06] You can license it.

[00:06:07] You can do it however you...

[00:06:08] You can use it exclusively for yourself if you choose.

[00:06:12] Right.

[00:06:12] But then you're able to recoup your cost and keep inventing.

[00:06:18] And it's so very important.

[00:06:20] Yes.

[00:06:21] Absolutely.

[00:06:21] So it's something that...

[00:06:22] It distinguishes us from the world.

[00:06:25] It does.

[00:06:25] Up until recently, because some inventions are emerging now from China and from Europe,

[00:06:33] things like that.

[00:06:34] But for 200 years plus, we led the world because we had a better economic model system.

[00:06:42] And we had a system that rewarded individual achievement and individual enterprise better than any other country in the world.

[00:06:51] Yes.

[00:06:52] And we have to get back to being that kind of country.

[00:06:56] Absolutely.

[00:06:58] Your recent...

[00:06:59] Well, you've got so many books from Reagan.

[00:07:02] The last act, this is after he left office?

[00:07:08] Correct.

[00:07:09] Yeah.

[00:07:09] It's about his years afterward.

[00:07:10] You know, a lot of people buy into the shorthand, you know, line of reasoning or line of history.

[00:07:19] The Reagan left the White House, came down with Alzheimer's and then died.

[00:07:23] Well, that's not true.

[00:07:24] There was a lot, a lot living in those many years between he left the White House.

[00:07:30] He left the White House in 89 and he didn't die until 25 years later.

[00:07:35] Right.

[00:07:35] And the Alzheimer's wasn't discovered until seven years after he left the White House.

[00:07:38] And that's what this is mostly about, is about those seven years after he left the White House.

[00:07:43] About his important speeches, about his travels, about his initiatives, about the Reagan Library, about his...

[00:07:54] He was knighted by the Queen of England and received high decorations from France.

[00:08:00] And he packed a lot of living into one lifetime and packed a lot of living into those seven years.

[00:08:07] And in those seven years...

[00:08:08] And it's interesting, too, is that he was constantly pilloried by the left.

[00:08:14] You know, if you look at here, is that some of the attacks on him, some of the vicious, mean, terrible attacks on him by the American left,

[00:08:25] you know, that he was dumb.

[00:08:27] He was old.

[00:08:30] He was mean.

[00:08:31] He was a doddering old grandfather.

[00:08:34] He was an indulgent old grandfather.

[00:08:36] I mean, just mean-spirited stuff from supposedly educated people, not just from guys on the street.

[00:08:42] I mean, they all loved Reagan.

[00:08:43] Right.

[00:08:43] It was the smart of the intellects, the sooner intellectuals.

[00:08:47] They're the ones who all viciously attacked Reagan.

[00:08:52] But in these seven years before he had Alzheimer's and he went into, truly into the sunset years of his life,

[00:09:00] the wall came down, Soviet Union collapsed.

[00:09:03] He saw the fruit of his labor.

[00:09:04] Yes, he did.

[00:09:05] He was able to see.

[00:09:06] Absolutely.

[00:09:07] That's, yeah.

[00:09:08] And he wound up giving...

[00:09:09] Didn't he give Mikhail Gorbachev a medal or something?

[00:09:12] He got a medal from the Soviet Union.

[00:09:14] What is interesting is that he went to the Soviet Union to give a speech.

[00:09:21] And there's a famous picture of him.

[00:09:24] He's talking to students from the University of Moscow.

[00:09:27] And there's a famous picture of him underneath the bust of Lenin.

[00:09:31] Right?

[00:09:31] Wow.

[00:09:32] And he's talking to the students.

[00:09:33] He says, yeah, he was no good either.

[00:09:36] And they're like, yay!

[00:09:37] Yeah.

[00:09:37] They're applauding an American president and they're booing a Soviet Union.

[00:09:42] I mean, that's how things change, how quickly things change in the Soviet Union.

[00:09:46] The rejection of socialism.

[00:09:49] And how quickly things can change right now.

[00:09:52] Things, I think today, to so many people looking around at what's happening in the world today,

[00:09:57] you see the weaponization of government against President Trump and against his allies.

[00:10:04] And just the hyper-political environment that we are in.

[00:10:10] And a very stagnant economy.

[00:10:12] And the world seems on the brink of World War.

[00:10:15] You've got Russia in Ukraine.

[00:10:16] You've got Iran and Hamas against Israel.

[00:10:19] Yes.

[00:10:19] China is flirting.

[00:10:21] I don't know that flirting is the right world.

[00:10:23] They say, they're building super carriers in the China Sea.

[00:10:26] Yeah.

[00:10:27] They're building artificial islands in the South China Sea.

[00:10:29] They're sending very clear signals.

[00:10:31] They're making threats against Taiwan.

[00:10:33] Absolutely.

[00:10:34] They're making these threats.

[00:10:36] And so all of these things are happening.

[00:10:38] And then you have a president in the office right now who's worried about gas appliances

[00:10:45] and worried it's almost like tennis courts or something.

[00:10:48] Yes.

[00:10:49] And worried.

[00:10:50] I mean, I'm sorry to interrupt you.

[00:10:52] But that's partially the Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis.

[00:10:57] Yes.

[00:10:57] Where the devil is teaching his protege about how to be evil.

[00:11:03] And one of the things he teaches them is to keep people's attention on what's not important.

[00:11:10] So if a guy's house is burning down, hand him a garden hose.

[00:11:15] If a guy's, you know, it's like teachers.

[00:11:17] It's like the teachers union.

[00:11:18] You say, boy, you're doing a lousy job.

[00:11:20] And the teachers, what do they say?

[00:11:21] Well, I need more money.

[00:11:23] Right?

[00:11:23] Right.

[00:11:23] They always say, we need more money.

[00:11:25] We need more books.

[00:11:26] We need more schools.

[00:11:28] They never answer for the lousy SAT scores or lousy crime in schools or teachers getting beat up.

[00:11:37] Public schools in America are atrocious, right?

[00:11:39] Which explains the growth of private schools and parochial schools.

[00:11:44] And homeschooling.

[00:11:45] So going after Biden, going after air conditioning and going after electric cars and all this other stuff is to keep people's attention focused on what's not important.

[00:12:00] Well, it keeps it on what's not important, but it's important in their day-to-day life.

[00:12:04] Like being able to cool your house, being able to cook.

[00:12:06] To the extent they can control people, sure.

[00:12:08] Right.

[00:12:08] But I mean, the individual, it distracts the individual, but those things are important to quality of life of the individual.

[00:12:16] Right.

[00:12:16] They are.

[00:12:17] So then they focus on that, but all of these other things are going on right now.

[00:12:22] And it's very easy to just think we're never going to be able to right this wrong.

[00:12:28] And I think that's why looking back at what happened with Reagan and how quickly things changed.

[00:12:34] I mean, he took down the Soviet Union in eight years, in 10 years, arguably.

[00:12:38] Well, he restored American morale.

[00:12:41] That was important.

[00:12:42] That was an important one, is that without the restoration of American morale, nothing else happens.

[00:12:46] Nothing else happens.

[00:12:48] Is that there's no prosperity.

[00:12:50] There's no growth.

[00:12:51] There's no hope.

[00:12:52] There's no future.

[00:12:54] The optimism was truly important.

[00:12:56] Part of his ideality.

[00:12:57] Yeah.

[00:12:58] Right.

[00:12:59] And why is that so important right now?

[00:13:04] For people who feel discouraged, there are a lot of people who are coming into politics today,

[00:13:11] who have come into politics today because they saw what happened in the election in 2020 and

[00:13:16] feel like they were wronged.

[00:13:17] And they just feel like the whole world is on fire right now.

[00:13:21] How is that message?

[00:13:24] Well, I would boil it down.

[00:13:26] The world is kind of on fire right now.

[00:13:28] Jenny, Beth, I would boil it down probably overly simplistically, but I boil it down to

[00:13:33] the eternal argument of where power reside.

[00:13:36] Does it reside with the few elites, the few corrupt elites, or does it reside with the many people?

[00:13:41] You and I would say it resides with the many people.

[00:13:44] But it hasn't always been that way.

[00:13:45] Right now, it's with the corrupt elites.

[00:13:49] So, and what motivates them?

[00:13:52] Power.

[00:13:53] Power.

[00:13:54] There's no, that is the ends and the means, is that you say, well, I remember from the book

[00:14:01] 1984 where Winston Smith is in room 101 and having the crap kicked out of him by O'Brien.

[00:14:08] And O'Brien says, why does the state desire power?

[00:14:12] And Winston Smith says, well, to help better the people and help them, you know, become

[00:14:18] better people.

[00:14:19] And O'Brien starts kicking the shit out of him.

[00:14:22] No, no, no.

[00:14:23] That was stupid.

[00:14:24] That was stupid, Smith.

[00:14:26] Why?

[00:14:26] And he finally answers, says, because the state desires power.

[00:14:29] Yes, that's a correct answer.

[00:14:32] Not to help people, not to make a better world and make a better society.

[00:14:36] It's simply to have power.

[00:14:38] Power for power's sake.

[00:14:39] And you go back to Pontius Pilate versus Jesus Christ up to the, through the dark ages, up

[00:14:47] to the American Revolution.

[00:14:48] It's the eternal argument of where does power reside?

[00:14:52] And so we're seeing that happen again today between, and I, it's really crystallized between

[00:14:58] Donald Trump and Joe Biden.

[00:15:00] Joe Biden is the epitome of the corrupt elites.

[00:15:03] This election, I think Trump has kind of stumbled on the truth.

[00:15:07] Trump is not an intellectual, but he is instinctual.

[00:15:10] He's got the best instincts I've seen in politics in many, many years, is that he knows this

[00:15:18] is an important election.

[00:15:19] Is it the most important election?

[00:15:20] No.

[00:15:20] But I would say it's one of the three most important elections we've had in 250 years.

[00:15:26] 1828, John Quincy Adams versus Andrew Jackson.

[00:15:29] Andrew Jackson represents the populace, the elites, the anti-corrupt government, anti-corrupt

[00:15:35] establishment.

[00:15:37] 1980, Ronald Reagan, the populist reformer, a conservative reformer against the corrupt

[00:15:43] elitist, Jimmy Carter.

[00:15:44] And this election, 2024, with again, Biden, the corrupt elitist versus Donald Trump, the

[00:15:52] reform populist.

[00:15:54] I think he made a mistake last time.

[00:15:56] He didn't go enough after spending and after corruption.

[00:15:59] I hope he puts that at the top of his agenda this time.

[00:16:02] I don't see how he could not.

[00:16:03] I mean, especially the corruption, because the corruption has been used so-

[00:16:07] It's so widespread.

[00:16:09] It's so widespread.

[00:16:09] And he is facing personal consequences because of the corruption.

[00:16:16] I saw a lot of corruption over the years.

[00:16:18] I mean, really, you know, really terrible things.

[00:16:21] I think my revulsion came in, I think it was 1990.

[00:16:28] It was just after Republicans took over Congress, 95, 96, before Bob Dole was nominated.

[00:16:35] He was the Senate Majority Leader.

[00:16:37] And I was representing the cable industry.

[00:16:41] And the cable industry, the new broadcast spectrum had been invented over and above the current

[00:16:49] broadcasting spectrum to include now, you fellas probably know, but it was a new broadcast

[00:16:55] spectrum anyway, over and above what the networks were using.

[00:16:59] They were, you know, cable uses, cable, you know, goes on TV polls, right?

[00:17:03] Broadcast spectrum uses the airwaves.

[00:17:05] And UHF and VHF.

[00:17:06] Yeah, exactly.

[00:17:07] And airwaves belong to us, the American people, right?

[00:17:11] And so this new spectrum was up for Congress, what to do with it.

[00:17:16] And we were lobbying Congress, well, put it up for auction, make ABC, NBC, and CBS pay for it.

[00:17:22] Don't just give it to them because this could generate billions of dollars for the U.S.

[00:17:27] government that belongs to the American people.

[00:17:29] And it was interesting because I got nowhere.

[00:17:33] I got nowhere.

[00:17:34] Everybody was so scared of the broadcast industry.

[00:17:37] The only two members of Congress that could get to stand up to the corrupt broadcasters, Bob Dole, who really, I was proud of Dole.

[00:17:46] I was proud of Bob.

[00:17:47] I mean, I remember seeing him lay into the National Association of Broadcasters, was then headed by a guy named Eddie Fritz, right?

[00:17:55] He was the head of NAB.

[00:17:56] And his college roommate had been Trent Lott.

[00:17:59] Oh.

[00:18:00] Yeah.

[00:18:00] So it was very convenient.

[00:18:02] Right.

[00:18:02] And Trent Lott was a nice guy, but he was as dirty as they come.

[00:18:05] He was, you know, not a very clean politician.

[00:18:09] But anyway, and Barney Frank was the other one, was the only other member of Congress that could get to stand up to the broadcast.

[00:18:18] So they brought the ABC, NBC, and CBS were given billions of dollars of new broadcast spectrum and didn't pay a dime for it.

[00:18:25] Didn't pay a dime.

[00:18:28] Corrupt.

[00:18:29] Yeah, corrupt.

[00:18:31] And I do hope that Trump gets in there and cleans that out if he is reelected.

[00:18:37] Your lips to God's ears.

[00:18:39] If he's reelected.

[00:18:40] You also have a book on his greatest speeches, right?

[00:18:42] That was fun to write.

[00:18:43] Why was it fun to write?

[00:18:45] Because it was overlooked in the fact that Trump was actually a good phrase maker and a good speech maker.

[00:18:51] He gave some good speeches.

[00:18:54] Mount Rushmore speech, I remember, was very, very good.

[00:18:57] You know, that's in there.

[00:18:58] I think we selected, we went through about, Zerreen and I went through about 50 of Trump's speeches and we came up with about 20.

[00:19:07] About 20.

[00:19:10] That we thought were exceptional speeches.

[00:19:14] He really gives good speeches.

[00:19:16] Yes, he does.

[00:19:17] He doesn't stick to the telepromp very often.

[00:19:21] But, you know, when he, he still gives good speeches.

[00:19:26] He, well, and I think that he doesn't, he doesn't stick to the teleprompter.

[00:19:31] You don't have to.

[00:19:32] He's good.

[00:19:32] He knows.

[00:19:33] He also, he has his own brain and he wants to be able to inject not just what is written, but what he's thinking at the time.

[00:19:40] The proof is in the pudding.

[00:19:41] Yeah.

[00:19:42] Look at the, I mean, he's got millions of followers.

[00:19:44] He does.

[00:19:45] Yeah.

[00:19:45] He does.

[00:19:47] So, and then you have also written about?

[00:19:54] George Washington's mother.

[00:19:56] That would be an interesting book.

[00:19:58] I haven't read this one.

[00:19:59] I'll give you a copy before you go.

[00:20:02] I'll give you a copy.

[00:20:03] Okay.

[00:20:04] I, two, I have several favorite presidents.

[00:20:08] Obviously, Ronald Reagan.

[00:20:09] George Washington was also a favorite president of mine.

[00:20:13] As you can look at the decorations of our house.

[00:20:16] And I want to do a book about Washington, but pretty much every, he'd been written about, you know, his boyhood and his post-presidency.

[00:20:24] And he'd been written about many different ways.

[00:20:26] So I was trying to figure out a way to get to Washington.

[00:20:30] And then I realized that nobody ever wrote a book about George Washington's mother, who is arguably the most important person, most important woman in America, in history.

[00:20:42] Because without Washington, there's no American Revolution.

[00:20:45] Without Washington, there's no American Republic.

[00:20:48] Without Washington, there's no Washington, D.C.

[00:20:50] Without, I mean, he's, he truly is the father of our country because he is the presence.

[00:20:56] He is the, he is the instigator of so many things.

[00:21:00] And he set the precedent for president and not king.

[00:21:03] Absolutely.

[00:21:03] He's had so many precedents for the presidency.

[00:21:07] And so I realized that nobody ever did a book about his mother.

[00:21:11] And I, I came to, you know, his, his mother, Mary has gotten a bad rap from history.

[00:21:17] Mary's been, even Ron Chernow and his great book about Washington.

[00:21:20] He wrote, Ron Chernow wrote a terrific book.

[00:21:23] But he wrote that Mary was mean and nasty and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:21:27] She wasn't.

[00:21:28] She wasn't.

[00:21:29] My research says she was tough, but she had to be tough.

[00:21:34] She was a single mother raising five children, right?

[00:21:37] In colonial America, she didn't even have the right to own property.

[00:21:41] We know she didn't have the right to vote, but women then theoretically at least couldn't own property.

[00:21:46] They had to deed it to their oldest son if their husband died.

[00:21:49] And her husband, Augustine, dies and she inherits a fairy farm and some plantations and things like this.

[00:21:55] And she's supposed to give it over to George.

[00:21:58] Well, one of them became a bone of contention because she wouldn't give it over to George.

[00:22:02] So it became a bone of contention for many years.

[00:22:04] But she was, you know, they say, you know, the old adage, right?

[00:22:08] Hand that rocks the cradle.

[00:22:10] She was the hand that rocked the cradle.

[00:22:14] And you have to be a tough.

[00:22:17] Absolutely.

[00:22:17] Especially if you're a single mom.

[00:22:20] I mean, it's hard enough being a single mom today.

[00:22:22] Today.

[00:22:23] That's why I want this book to resonate with women today like yourself, right?

[00:22:28] Right.

[00:22:29] Because think of it.

[00:22:30] In her times in colonial America is that she's raising five.

[00:22:35] Well, there were six, but Abigail died at an early age.

[00:22:38] So there were five.

[00:22:39] And she's raising them in colonial America where there are so many limitations on a woman's ability to own property, to vote.

[00:22:49] You know, women didn't speak out, didn't write letters or write newspapers or things like that.

[00:22:55] They were hemmed in.

[00:22:57] They were expected to behave a certain way and not step out of those paths and not step out of those race lanes.

[00:23:06] And how old was George Washington when his father died?

[00:23:12] Do you remember?

[00:23:14] 11, 12.

[00:23:15] And so she had to be responsible for the entire estate?

[00:23:18] Everything.

[00:23:19] Yeah.

[00:23:19] Everything.

[00:23:20] Everything.

[00:23:20] She wasn't, she had to give it to him, but she also had the responsibility of maintaining and protecting it.

[00:23:27] Yeah.

[00:23:27] Yeah.

[00:23:27] She was supervising the crop rotation, supervising slaves and supervising the planting of the right vegetables and the right tobacco and the right things like this.

[00:23:38] And her house in Fredericksburg.

[00:23:40] I mean, she had a tough life.

[00:23:42] She had a tough life, but she was very capable.

[00:23:44] She lived to be 93 or 83, 83 until she died of breast cancer, which is interesting because over here in Lively, there was a woman with the last name of Ball.

[00:23:56] Now, she was a direct descendant.

[00:23:58] She was right down the lineage from Mary Ball Washington, right down through generation after generation.

[00:24:04] She died of breast cancer.

[00:24:07] So that terrible, awful, killer disease followed the Ball women right down through generation after generation after generation.

[00:24:16] Wow.

[00:24:17] Yeah.

[00:24:20] That's terrible.

[00:24:21] Yes, it is.

[00:24:22] Yes, it is.

[00:24:23] But Mary Ball, I mean, I almost say she died a happy woman.

[00:24:27] Nobody dies happy.

[00:24:29] But she was well accomplished.

[00:24:30] She was very proud of her son.

[00:24:32] She didn't show it at the time.

[00:24:33] She was domineering somewhat.

[00:24:36] She was demanding somewhat.

[00:24:38] But she had to be.

[00:24:39] She had to be to get by, to get by in that tough world.

[00:24:42] But she was very proud of him.

[00:24:44] You know, he used to come and visit her all the time.

[00:24:47] He would ride his horse down from Mount Vernon down here to Fredericksburg.

[00:24:52] You know, there's usually days traveled by horse.

[00:24:54] And he would come down, you know, check up on her very frequently, at least once a month.

[00:24:59] And the last time was as president.

[00:25:02] And she took him in hand.

[00:25:05] And basically, she was dying.

[00:25:07] She was dying.

[00:25:08] But she told him how proud she was and how happy she had him that he was her son.

[00:25:13] So at the very last, he gets the final blessing he needs to get his mother's blessing.

[00:25:19] Right.

[00:25:20] Yeah.

[00:25:21] And when you're this, when that's really the only parent he knew at that, I mean, I love

[00:25:26] and I'm sure you remembered his father.

[00:25:28] No, no.

[00:25:28] Because his, his, his Lawrence, who is his stepbrother, was his surrogate father.

[00:25:32] Wow.

[00:25:33] But Lawrence, who owned Mount Vernon, who named Mount Vernon after a British military commander

[00:25:39] he worked for and then sold the property to George, who then made it his own.

[00:25:44] But, but Lawrence, who died at a young age too, was his surrogate father.

[00:25:50] Wow.

[00:25:50] That's what he really looked up to.

[00:25:52] He was a very well accomplished individual.

[00:25:55] He was very well accomplished.

[00:25:57] He was military, military leader and, you know, officer and, you know, was, was well thought

[00:26:04] of.

[00:26:05] That's good.

[00:26:06] Yeah.

[00:26:06] And then you also wrote one on Newt.

[00:26:08] Yeah.

[00:26:08] You know, I first started volunteering in 1992.

[00:26:13] Right.

[00:26:14] And, and I was in Newt, Newt Gingrich's district.

[00:26:17] Right, right.

[00:26:18] So, um, I volunteered, um, Carrollton.

[00:26:21] Well, it was in Marietta.

[00:26:23] So it was in Marietta at that time.

[00:26:25] And I wound up volunteering on Bob Barr's campaign.

[00:26:29] Okay.

[00:26:30] Because I reached out to Newt's campaign and they were like, we, we don't, go, go help

[00:26:33] over next door.

[00:26:35] And, um, he's, you even say he's a Reagan conservative.

[00:26:42] Yes.

[00:26:42] Yes.

[00:26:43] Very much so.

[00:26:43] How, how, how is that?

[00:26:45] He started out as a liberal, liberal Republican.

[00:26:48] He was a Nelson Rockefeller booster.

[00:26:50] He was a Gerald Ford booster.

[00:26:52] Goodness.

[00:26:53] It was only after Reagan went into Georgia to campaign for Newt in 1978 where Newt actually

[00:26:59] started becoming, because he was a tree hugger.

[00:27:02] He was, he was a college professor.

[00:27:03] He was very, very, I wouldn't say he was leftist, but he was very, very squishy, you know, kind

[00:27:09] of a, a rhino, a rhino Republican.

[00:27:12] Right.

[00:27:12] It was only after Reagan, he started studying and only after Reagan campaigned for him that

[00:27:17] he really started to turn into a Reagan conservative.

[00:27:20] And by the time he was elected to the house in 1978, he was a firebrand.

[00:27:25] He was terrific.

[00:27:26] He was on fire.

[00:27:27] He was four square on tax cuts, four square on national defense, four square on pro-life.

[00:27:33] He was right down the line, a Reagan man.

[00:27:36] And this book is about a lot of the coordination between him as he was rising through the ranks

[00:27:42] up to speaker and the Reagan White House.

[00:27:46] And does this book cover his speakership as well?

[00:27:48] No, it ends, it ends with him becoming speaker.

[00:27:51] Okay.

[00:27:51] It ends.

[00:27:52] That's, that's the ultimate.

[00:27:53] Yeah.

[00:27:54] It charges growth from the time of being a college professor at West Georgia State up

[00:28:01] to the night he becomes speaker.

[00:28:04] Well, now you have to write another book.

[00:28:06] Well, I've been thinking about that.

[00:28:08] I don't know.

[00:28:09] I have.

[00:28:12] These are not enough.

[00:28:13] Well.

[00:28:13] And this.

[00:28:14] I have a legal, I have a legal tablet.

[00:28:17] Yes.

[00:28:17] Yeah.

[00:28:17] I have a legal tablet with right now there's about 26 books I want to write.

[00:28:22] Wow.

[00:28:23] Which means one thing.

[00:28:25] I'm going to expire long before the list does.

[00:28:27] Yes.

[00:28:27] Right?

[00:28:28] Yes.

[00:28:29] One thing that I, so I knew and have known Newt from when he became speaker.

[00:28:37] Right.

[00:28:37] I mean, I met him before he was speaker.

[00:28:39] Right.

[00:28:39] Right.

[00:28:39] I saw him.

[00:28:40] Right.

[00:28:40] But I, and I wouldn't say I'm like best friends or even friends with him, but I know him.

[00:28:45] Yeah.

[00:28:45] I was his constituent while he was speaker.

[00:28:47] He doesn't have best friends.

[00:28:48] Well, good.

[00:28:49] Then see, I don't have to feel bad.

[00:28:50] But I don't feel bad anyway.

[00:28:51] He has friends.

[00:28:52] Yeah.

[00:28:52] He has friends.

[00:28:53] But he's, I respect him for it.

[00:28:55] He's, he's very, he's very guarded about things.

[00:28:58] He doesn't, he doesn't show his emotions too much.

[00:29:00] You know, he, he, he, I wouldn't say he keeps himself because he and Calista are, you

[00:29:04] know, like this, right?

[00:29:06] He loves Calista very, very much.

[00:29:09] He likes his friends.

[00:29:10] I just got an email from him this morning.

[00:29:12] He's asking me all the time about this, this Reagan question or that Reagan question

[00:29:16] and the American question about American history.

[00:29:17] So we, we correspond frequently and, but I would never say he's a close friend.

[00:29:25] I would say he's a very good person.

[00:29:27] Right.

[00:29:27] He's a very good person.

[00:29:28] He, I think that he used the office of speaker.

[00:29:33] Well, he did.

[00:29:34] He used the office of speaker in a way I haven't seen any other Republican speaker use it.

[00:29:38] And I'm talking about not just what he did in, in the official capacity, but when you

[00:29:45] step back and you look at what he was doing with GoPack and what he was, he was a college

[00:29:51] professor.

[00:29:51] Yes.

[00:29:52] On fire.

[00:29:53] And when you would go to a speech or when you would ask him a question in a gathering,

[00:29:59] he talked to you and he explained it to you like a professor would.

[00:30:02] Right.

[00:30:02] And I don't mean that like he was all intellectual.

[00:30:04] No, no, no, no, no.

[00:30:05] He couldn't break it down so you understand what was going on.

[00:30:08] He wouldn't blow off anybody.

[00:30:09] He would, it would answer anybody's questions.

[00:30:11] He had in, in his campaign office, which was open 20, 24, seven, not on the Sunday nights,

[00:30:20] I'm sure, but it was open and there were events.

[00:30:23] I learned how to write letters to the editor.

[00:30:25] They would go in and train people constantly.

[00:30:28] He was, he was very grassroots.

[00:30:29] He was always grassroots.

[00:30:31] Yes.

[00:30:31] And so I learned so much from him and the people who he employed on the campaign side.

[00:30:37] Right.

[00:30:37] And I paid attention to the official side, but it was closer to the campaign side.

[00:30:41] Right.

[00:30:42] And, um, and I've talked to him as the Tea Party movement began and over the years,

[00:30:49] and he's always answered my questions.

[00:30:50] And he's someone who I've learned a lot from.

[00:30:55] He, you know, you think about his place in history.

[00:30:58] We all talked about, oh, noob this, noob that, noob, blah, blah, blah.

[00:31:02] But you think about what American politician has had the longevity of him.

[00:31:08] You know, he's been on the national scene since the 1970s.

[00:31:12] So that's 50 years, right?

[00:31:14] Is that Nixon?

[00:31:16] Okay.

[00:31:17] 48 to the 70s.

[00:31:18] Okay.

[00:31:19] So that would be 50 years, but he was president of the United States.

[00:31:22] Right.

[00:31:22] Think of a politician who was not a president of the United States, who's had longevity of Newt Gingrich,

[00:31:27] the font of new ideas all the time.

[00:31:30] Henry Clay, 20, 30 years.

[00:31:34] But who else beyond that?

[00:31:36] Who else beyond that?

[00:31:37] You know, not Jack, not Alexander Hamilton.

[00:31:39] You know, he was a bad shot and got set, got killed in a duel.

[00:31:43] He was on the national scene for 20 years, right?

[00:31:46] From the time of the American Revolution to his duel, what was it, 1802, 1803 with Aaron Burr.

[00:31:55] So you can't, you're hard pressed to think of an American politician who's had the staying power that Newt Gingrich has had.

[00:32:03] And he has taken it, I mean, the bumps and bruises and hits he's taken over the years.

[00:32:13] And he's like a Timex watch.

[00:32:15] He takes a lick and it keeps on ticking, right?

[00:32:18] Right.

[00:32:18] For the energizer bunny.

[00:32:20] Yeah, the energizer bunny.

[00:32:21] He keeps going and going and going.

[00:32:21] He keeps going.

[00:32:22] Yeah.

[00:32:23] Yeah.

[00:32:25] So you have the latest book on Reagan, the search for Reagan.

[00:32:30] What is this one about?

[00:32:31] And it just came out this year.

[00:32:33] Yes, it did.

[00:32:34] Yeah, it just came out a couple months ago.

[00:32:35] It is two things, Jenny Beth.

[00:32:37] It is, first of all, his exploration of Ronald Reagan's intellect and his compassion, both of which were considerable.

[00:32:45] His old aide, Marty Anderson, was a good friend of mine.

[00:32:48] He's since passed away.

[00:32:49] He once told me that he estimated, now, Marty had PhDs coming out of his ears.

[00:32:55] He went to Dartmouth.

[00:32:56] He went to MIT.

[00:32:57] He went to Harvard.

[00:32:58] He had all sorts of, I mean, he knew an intellect when he saw one, right?

[00:33:02] Because he was an intellect.

[00:33:03] Right.

[00:33:04] And he told me one time, he estimated Reagan's IQ as being 170.

[00:33:09] Right?

[00:33:09] Wow.

[00:33:10] But also, his compassion, which was considerable.

[00:33:17] His compassion for men dying of AIDS and how much the untold billions he had federal government spend on research.

[00:33:25] And his compassion for Japanese Americans who had been interred during World War II unfairly.

[00:33:34] And his drive to get them reparations.

[00:33:37] And so it deals with a lot of that.

[00:33:39] But it also is a refutation.

[00:33:42] It's a corrective against men in the liberalized that have been hurled against Ronald Reagan over the years.

[00:33:48] So it's for two reasons.

[00:33:49] One is to explore his intellect.

[00:33:52] And the other is to correct the record.

[00:33:54] So that's why I wrote.

[00:33:55] Now, I wish, now, you know, you always, you've written books and articles.

[00:34:01] And so you always think to yourself, you know, whenever you write a book, you think, oh, I should have included that.

[00:34:05] You know, why did I include that?

[00:34:07] You're always kicking yourself, right?

[00:34:08] And with this one, I wish I'd include a chapter on Reagan and homeless.

[00:34:12] Because Reagan has been the subject of so many lies about the homeless crisis in America.

[00:34:18] And several other subjects that people lied about.

[00:34:21] Reagan and the welfare queen.

[00:34:23] You know, he's been lied about that many, many times.

[00:34:26] So those are two subjects I wish I'd addressed.

[00:34:30] But fortunately, my friend Paul Kangor, who is also a very, very fine historian, has also written a number of Reagan books.

[00:34:37] He's got a book coming out about Reagan and race.

[00:34:40] So he's going to deal with the issue of the welfare queens and set that to set, you know, correct the record, hopefully once and for all.

[00:34:48] I hope that it does.

[00:34:49] When my children were studying, you talked about the public schools being messed up.

[00:34:53] Right.

[00:34:54] When they were learning about Reagan in high school, they came home saying that their books said that Reagan was a racist.

[00:35:03] And it said the Tea Party was racist.

[00:35:05] So my children understood that this couldn't.

[00:35:07] They knew I wasn't racist.

[00:35:09] Yeah, right.

[00:35:09] That they weren't racist.

[00:35:10] Yeah.

[00:35:10] So they didn't.

[00:35:11] They knew that that wasn't right.

[00:35:13] But it's so frustrating to know that that's.

[00:35:15] Very scary.

[00:35:16] Very.

[00:35:16] Well, two things, two points about that.

[00:35:18] Let me interrupt for a sec.

[00:35:19] Is that because American public schools are failing and failing in teaching history, is that people like me have become American.

[00:35:27] I don't mean to be I don't want to blow sunshine up by, you know, sunshine where it doesn't belong.

[00:35:32] But we're now America's school teachers because nobody else is teaching American history.

[00:35:36] That's number one.

[00:35:37] Number two was that David McCullough was a great historian.

[00:35:41] His last book was on the Wright Brothers, as a matter of fact.

[00:35:44] He once said that we are now in our third generation of historically illiterate Americans.

[00:35:50] Is that how many Americans know about the revolution or the Civil War or the Pearl Harbor or about the Cold War?

[00:36:00] They don't.

[00:36:01] What are they taught?

[00:36:02] Wokeism and Republicans are racist.

[00:36:05] I mean, that's what they know.

[00:36:06] I've got we have four children.

[00:36:08] Two are sane and rational.

[00:36:10] Two are insane leftists.

[00:36:11] And the insane leftists were victims of public schools.

[00:36:15] Yeah.

[00:36:16] Well, and it's not it's not it's very frustrating.

[00:36:19] It is frustrating.

[00:36:20] It is truly frustrating.

[00:36:22] And there's a lot of work to do.

[00:36:24] Yes.

[00:36:25] To do with that.

[00:36:25] But it's good that you are writing and doing.

[00:36:28] No one can look at these books and go, oh, well, this is not well researched.

[00:36:34] These are very well researched books.

[00:36:36] Thank you.

[00:36:36] You're making sure that.

[00:36:38] Thank you.

[00:36:38] You're not just telling making the case, but you're you're backing up the case that you've made.

[00:36:43] Yes.

[00:36:43] Yes.

[00:36:44] You know, it's strange, too, because most historians are leftists.

[00:36:48] Right.

[00:36:49] Doris Kearns Goodwin.

[00:36:50] John Meacham, Michael Beschloss, Doug Brinkley is that is that there are very few conservative historians.

[00:37:00] Really.

[00:37:00] Paul Johnson, Paul King or who I mentioned myself.

[00:37:06] Is it?

[00:37:06] I mean, our lane is pretty wide because there's so many.

[00:37:10] There's so few people in it.

[00:37:12] Right.

[00:37:12] We need more.

[00:37:14] Yes.

[00:37:14] We need more.

[00:37:15] We need more.

[00:37:15] You know, a guy at the Reagan Institute said to me the other day, he says, he says, we need more.

[00:37:21] We need younger Craig Shirley's.

[00:37:23] And I said, bravo.

[00:37:24] Here, here.

[00:37:25] I shouldn't I shouldn't be looked at, you know, as the end all and be all.

[00:37:29] There should be a thousand people like me writing the correct history.

[00:37:34] Nobody's ever written history about how the American Revolution was really a religious war and to throw off the Church of England.

[00:37:40] That is a great book.

[00:37:41] And nobody's ever written.

[00:37:43] Is that on your list of 26?

[00:37:45] Yes.

[00:37:46] Yes.

[00:37:47] Of course it is.

[00:37:49] So.

[00:37:52] You've written so much about Reagan.

[00:37:55] Six books.

[00:37:55] Yeah.

[00:37:57] A lot of articles, too, but nobody's counting.

[00:37:59] How do you summarize what why was Reagan so important?

[00:38:05] And how do you tell someone like my kids who weren't taught what they needed to be taught?

[00:38:09] Why was why was Reagan important?

[00:38:12] He was important because he unleashed an intellectual revolution in America whose effects were felt for many years.

[00:38:19] You know, there's a theory of history, which is called the Sunburst Theory.

[00:38:26] You think of the time back in Vienna, right?

[00:38:28] With all those marvelous composers with Schubert, Mozart, Brahms and Bach, all coming to fruition all in the same time period.

[00:38:39] And then you go back to Philadelphia in the 1770s, 1760s, 1770s.

[00:38:45] And all these great intellects, you know, meeting to craft the Constitution, debating, arguing for hours.

[00:38:53] Franklin and Madison and Locke, not Locke, but and so many others.

[00:38:59] Right.

[00:38:59] I mean, these are brilliant men.

[00:39:01] It was again, it was the Sunburst Theory of history.

[00:39:03] And then you go back 200 years later to the 1970s when the conservative revolution is taking hold, beginning and coming up with answers to the failures of American leftism.

[00:39:14] And we're coming up with ideas on a daily basis, you know, not just tax cuts, enterprise zones and so many other initiatives that would empower the individual, that would empower the locality, that would take power away from the state and do so creatively.

[00:39:31] Then help, you know, truly help the citizen.

[00:39:36] And, you know, this all comes to fruition under Ronald Reagan.

[00:39:41] And so by the time of his presidency, he's got seven, eight years of conservative ideas and thoughts behind him, pushing him forward, which is, you know, he comes in and it's even the Washington Post said, thank God.

[00:39:56] One reason we can thank God for the Reagan campaign is unleashed a new intellectual revolution in America.

[00:40:02] And that's almost a direct quote from the Washington Post saying that Ronald Reagan unleashed an intellectual revolution in America.

[00:40:09] Right.

[00:40:09] And he did.

[00:40:10] He did.

[00:40:11] Who thought about aiding, really aiding indigenous freedom fighters throughout the world to push back on the Soviets?

[00:40:20] Who thought about SDI?

[00:40:22] Who thought about enterprise zones?

[00:40:23] Who thought about tax cuts?

[00:40:24] Who thought about all these other initiatives that were designed to take power away from the state and give it back to the individual?

[00:40:34] And it was all done creatively.

[00:40:35] And it was all done because of the American conservative movement and the movement led by Ronald Reagan.

[00:40:42] Craig Shirley, thank you so much for your time today.

[00:40:45] Thank you so much.

[00:40:45] Thank you.

[00:40:46] It was fun.

[00:40:48] I enjoyed it very much.

[00:40:50] So did I.

[00:40:50] Thank you.

[00:40:51] The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin, produced by Kevin Mooneyham, and directed by Luke Livingston.

[00:40:59] The Jenny Beth Show is a production of Tea Party Patriots Action.

[00:41:04] For more information, visit teapartypatriots.org.

[00:41:10] If you liked this episode, let me know by hitting the like button or leaving a comment or a five-star review.

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[00:41:25] If you do these simple things, it will help the podcast grow, and I'd really appreciate it.

[00:41:31] Thank you so much.

[00:41:32] Thank you.