Reagan's Legacy in Modern Conservatism Part 1 | Craig Shirley, Author and Historian

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Government failed to secure inflation. Government failed to cure high taxes. Government failed

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_01]: at many different levels through the 1960s and 70s, so there has to be an answer to that.

[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_01]: The answer is the individual, not government. That was, I mean, Reagan came along at the

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_01]: right moment and the right time to convey his message.

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Keeping our republic is on the line, and it requires patriots with great passion,

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_00]: dedication and eternal vigilance to preserve our freedoms. Jenny Beth Martin is the co-founder

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_00]: of Tea Party Patriots. She is an author, a filmmaker and one of Time magazine's most

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_00]: influential people in the world. But the title she is most proud of is Mom to her Boy Girl Twins.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_00]: She has been at the forefront fighting to protect America's core principles for more than a decade.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to The Jenny Beth Show.

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_02]: What is it take to become a leading authority on Ronald Reagan, one of America's most iconic

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_02]: presidents? Today we dive into the life and insights of Craig Shirley, a New York Times bestselling

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_02]: author who has not only written six books on Reagan but also served as the historical

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_02]: advisor for the new Reagan movie. From his early days canvassing for Barry Goldwater

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_02]: to becoming a best-selling author and a trusted Reagan scholar, Craig's story

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_02]: is one of dedication and passion for American conservatism. In this first part of our two-part

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_02]: series, Craig shares his unique perspective on Ronald Reagan's 1976 campaign, the pivotal moments that

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_02]: defined Reagan's political career and the impact of his policies on America's future.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll uncover how Craig transitioned from a political operative to a revered author.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Stay tuned for an enlightening conversation with Craig Shirley that offers a blend

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_02]: of historical insight and personal anecdotes providing a deeper understanding of the president

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_02]: who revitalized the American spirit. Craig Shirley, thank you so much for doing our podcast and

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_02]: for having me at your lovely beautiful home. Thank you, thank you very much, Jenny Beth.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_02]: You have written so many books. The stack if I hold it all up it would be like very tall,

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_02]: feet tall. You've written six books on Ronald Reagan, right? Yes. And you were or are a historical

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_02]: advisor to the new Reagan movie that's coming out. Yes, yes. Why did you decide to research

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Reagan and become so well-versed in his history? My parents were charter members of the New

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_01]: York State Conservative Party. They were delegates to the state convention every two years and they

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_01]: were with the Buckleys and Mike Valerio, a lot of people like that. They're very active in the

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_01]: early days of the conservative movement and they got my brother and me involved. And so we went,

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_01]: we went door to door for very gold water and we went door to door for Richard Nixon,

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_01]: brochures and got a lot of doors slammed in our face but conservatism has always been

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_01]: in my blood. I worked on the 76th campaign. I worked on the 80 Reagan campaign where

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I first met my wife, Zarene, 47 years ago. So I remember very distinctly after the 64 campaign

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_01]: my father came home with a record album. The title of the record album was Ron DeGru with Destiny.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_01]: It was Reagan's speech for very gold water and he made my brother and me sit down and listen to

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_01]: it. And after listening to, you know, it was long playing 33, you know, third, you know, long

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_01]: playing record album. And afterwards I remember my father explaining this man Reagan himself should

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_01]: be present. He was pretty prescient, you know, in 1964. So, you know, it just, I'd always been a

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_01]: follower of Ronald Reagan, I always studied Ronald Reagan, I always read newspaper articles

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_01]: about Ronald Reagan magazine articles. And so just one thing led to another. I worked on the

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_01]: 80 campaign then I worked for the Republican National Committee which was the political arm

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_01]: of the Reagan White House. I worked for the White House Conference on Small Business and I

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_01]: worked on the 84 campaign. And then I started my own firm and a lot of my clients were clients

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_01]: that I worked on in conjunction with the Reagan White House. Nick Rodney Contra's were a client,

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_01]: the Afghan Moushad Deans, I worked on SDI, I worked on the 86 tax reform bill so I was

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_01]: at the White House all the time, you know, working on strategy and all that. And

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_01]: when I started my own company, one of my early clients was Thomas Nelson Publishing. They started

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Thomas Nelson, you know, we remember the largest publisher of the Bible. Right. They started public

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_01]: comparison division called Nelson Current and they hired my firm to do all the marketing for Nelson

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Current. And the president of the company who is now passed away, unfortunately David Dunham

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_01]: had a standing order and that was that we ever had a good idea for a book we're supposed

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: to call them and tell them. So I called him one day, I said, you know, I got a good idea for books

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_01]: to tell me what's that? I said, nobody has ever written a book about the 1976 Reagan campaign.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Mrs. Reagan always said of Reagan's five national campaigns it was the most exciting.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And without 76 campaign, there is no 1980 campaign because it laid the foundation for

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_01]: him to run in 1980, laid the ideological and personal foundation. He said, I love the idea,

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_01]: go get me a writer. So I called all over Washington, I called George Will, I called Frank Donatelli,

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I called lots of writers and lots of political activists and everybody had an excuse why they

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_01]: couldn't write. They weren't interested in the subject. They were busy, yammy, yammy, yammy.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So after about three weeks, I report the sad news back to David. And I said, David,

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm striking out on this idea for a writer for the 76 campaign book. And David said,

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_01]: six little words that changed my life forever. He said, well, why don't you write it?

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I said, okay, I'll write it. Sure. I thought I'd entertain leading notions about writing

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_01]: steamy novels and stuff like that, but not nonfiction, not historical nonfiction. Although

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I was history major in college, I studied history in my whole life and loved American history.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So I said, okay, what do I do? He said, well, first you got to write a treatment. I said,

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_01]: what's the treatment? Yeah, you're not right. He laughed and he said,

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll send you some samples. You can use templates. So I got the templates,

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_01]: we got the samples, and I sent them back a template three weeks later, two weeks later.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And within a matter of days, I got a contract and a very large check and advance

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_01]: with the good news is I got a contract and a very large advance. The bad news is I got a contract

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and a very large advance. Now I got to write the darn right. So I signed the contract deposit

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_01]: of the check and just set about gaining as much knowledge as I could about the 76 campaign. I

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_01]: interviewed everybody who's still alive. I interviewed, you know, many of the Reagan

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_01]: children I interviewed a lot of the Bush children I interviewed Howard Baker, I interviewed his

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Sissy Baker, I interviewed so many people who are still alive. And when I started writing this

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_01]: 20 years ago that I interviewed. And so after fashion, I came up with a book and it ended

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_01]: up being on the Washington Post Best Seller's List. And they were very happy because it sold very

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_01]: well. I was very happy because I had something in my hand show, you know, something for my

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I had a lot of things might don't get me wrong. They're like coached and I built the

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_01]: business and built a family. But writing a book is different is different. You're exactly right.

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly right. Something tangible to prove you have intellect, you know, not just a diploma

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_01]: to hang on a wall, but actually something you can say, you know, I did this. I'm proud

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_01]: of this accomplishment. Right. So I wrote the book it came out and met good reviews.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And a couple months later, I got a president from the public, a call from the president of ISI

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_01]: publishers and says, I love Reagan's Revolution. But the story is incomplete. I said, yeah,

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I know. He said, well, we want you to write the story, the book on the 1980 campaign.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So again, they sent me a contract and a very large check. And again, I set out gaining as

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: much knowledge as I could. I mean, I interviewed everybody and I dug into presidential libraries

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_01]: the Reagan library and the Ford library and all these other locations, you know, national archives

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and the Library of Congress. By the way, I have to say on my book on the 76th campaign,

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I had a little trouble with the Reagan library. So I complained about one day to an old

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Reagan speech writer, Peter Hanifor. And, lo and behold, Mrs. Reagan called

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Reagan library and she says, you give Craig Shirley all the cooperation he wants, whatever

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: he wants you give it to him. Because I know he's going to write a good book for Ronnie.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So I did. And you know, she was my best friend after that. Right. Right.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So I wrote the book on the 80 campaign. And the nice thing was, was that really

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_01]: it is the definitive story of the 1980 campaign. Nobody's ever, nobody's ever written

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_01]: anything close to it. And I hope nobody ever will.

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_02]: The Reagan, Reagan's revolution, the first one you were, you were seeing that this one was so

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_02]: important, informative to how he became who he was. Yes.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Mrs. Reagan thought it was such an important time. What elaborate on that?

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's more about that period. Okay. It was a very dark period for the Republican

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: party in 1973 and 74. The country is in the depths of Watergate. Nixon is about to resign,

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Spiro Agnew has already resigned. And by the way, Spiro Agnew was the front runner for 1976,

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_01]: not Ronald Reagan. Spiro Agnew absent his corruption and pretty leading no low contender

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_01]: in resigning the vice president. See would have been nominated by the Republican party in 76.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_01]: But that changes everything for Reagan. And then Nixon resignation also. The path is clear

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_01]: through the wilderness for Ronald Reagan, who previously wasn't really thinking about running

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: for president until 74, 75 when it becomes clear that the nomination is now wide open because Gerald

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Ford is challenged. Okay. He's a non incumbent appointed president. He's never asked anybody

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_01]: in the country for his vote except outside of one congressional district in Michigan.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So nobody has anything invested in Gerald Ford. So now that it's open and Reagan comes

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_01]: out of 2259 delegate votes cast in Kansas City in August 76, Reagan comes within 69

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_01]: delegate votes of beating the incumbent. And only because of hijinks in the Ohio,

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Mississippi and New Jersey delegations is Reagan denied winning the nomination 76.

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, a lot of people say it was good because Reagan and 80 was a better, stronger, more prepared

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_01]: candidate in 76. I'm not so sure I buy him by that because if you look at his him in 76,

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean he was on fire, his speeches, he was at the top of his game. And who's to say that he

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: wouldn't become president and still been able to persuade a conservative Democratic Congress

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_01]: to follow him a lot of legislation. Now on the other side of the equation, I will tell you is

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Reagan 76 was not a fully formed conservative. He had the national defense. He had the family

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_01]: arguments, pro-life arguments a little bit. He didn't have the tax cutting arguments at all.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't have the anti he had some of the anti Soviet argument, but he was incomplete.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Issue cluster was incomplete. So the issue cluster was complete in 1980. The one that Donald Trump

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_01]: runs on today is the one Ronald Reagan introduced to the party in 1980.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And when you say it wasn't complete, what is a complete picture of conservatism and a conservative?

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Conservative, well, as Reagan said in 64, maximum freedom consistent with law and order.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I would say it's about a number of words, individuality, privacy, dignity,

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_01]: life extending for all human beings. I believe in supply side happiness,

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_01]: not just supply side economics, but supply, you know, is just to create a world where

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_01]: everybody can reach the highest level of achievement without the heavy hand of

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_01]: government or nobility interfering is leaving people alone. I know I'm not articulating this well,

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_01]: but it is that basically it comes down to the individual, the privacy and the rights of the

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: individual, which is where American conservatism has been since the revolution. The revolution

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_01]: was really about throwing off the shackles of the British empire, throwing off the

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Church of England and allowing the individual to flourish. That's right.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_02]: It's hard to imagine what it was like before that because we've never experienced anything

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_01]: like that. No, but a different sort of way, not like the British empire.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Although with COVID, we sure experienced a lot of heavy handed government.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely. Starting with the New Deal and on forward. Absolutely. But you know,

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_01]: under the British crown, the Church of England, which is overlooked completely by historians,

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Revolutionary War was as much a religious war as it was a war for personal freedom

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and independence for the American county. The Church of England was the political arm

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: of the King of England. The Church of England wasn't dominant in Massachusetts because

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_01]: those pilgrims and those religious sects had already gotten there first. It wasn't because

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_01]: William Penn had settled in Pennsylvania, but it was very prominent in the South.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_01]: They collected taxes. They meted out punishment. Some clergymen who preached

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_01]: other faiths other than the Church of England were actually hung by the Church of England.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_01]: They would physically punish people. It was a very, very suppressive political arm of

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_01]: the British crown. So as much as the American Revolution was about all those other things,

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_01]: it was also a war for American religious, which is why it's in the First Amendment, right?

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that you will have no state religion because they had a state religion and it was awful.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. That's exactly right. Okay, so he doesn't win. There are shenanigans.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_02]: He learned a lot and then he became a full-fledged conservative.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And what happened during the campaign season in 1979 and 1980?

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_01]: There were a lot of ups and downs. He almost lost a nomination because of his

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_01]: inter-tenant list to his own campaign. Reagan, when he had a tendency to coast,

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_01]: it was only when he had to fight did he become, his eyes would brighten up, his resolve would

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_01]: sharpen, his message would sharpen, and then he became really focused. And then after he lost

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_01]: the Iowa caucuses to George Bush in 1980, everybody was saying it's over for Reagan.

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we were just what Tom Petter of NBC said the night of the hour caucuses, right? It's

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_01]: huge upset. I mean, George Bush beats Ronald Reagan, who was a local hero in Iowa. He broadcasts

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_01]: two different radio stations there and he went to college just over the river in Illinois.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And Tom Petter that night said, we have just witnessed the political funeral of

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Ronald Reagan. He said that now today there's only one week between the Iowa caucuses and

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_01]: New Hampshire primary. Not enough time to recover, but in 1980 there were five weeks in between the

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Iowa caucuses and New Hampshire primary. So it gave Reagan time because he wasn't campaigning in

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Iowa the way he should have been. He was inattentive and he lost. And the people of Iowa

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: really resented it. They said we're going to, this is a vote. This is a strategic vote.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_01]: We're voting against Reagan for ignoring us. So he went to New Hampshire and just,

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_01]: he just stayed there and just campaigned there every day. He campaigned there, you know, one day

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_01]: he was campaigning for morning delight overnight in the campaign bus, the press bus. One night

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_01]: they hung a sign in the buses, it says, bring the Reagan 44 because they were covering him

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and they were exhausted from covering a man who was twice their age driving them, you know,

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_01]: into the grass because he was so aggressive. So, and of course that was the side of the famous

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_01]: debate. Now a lot of people think, you know, I'm paying for this microphone. Mr. Brain won

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_01]: the campaign for Reagan. He would have won anyway, but it did increase his margin. He won

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_01]: 53-21 over George Bush. Crushed him, he reinstalled himself as the front runner for the 1988 nomination.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_01]: But absent that, that scene of him yelling at the National Telegraph editor, right, Mr. Brain,

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_02]: absent that. Elaborate on that a little in case people like my daughter or son don't know.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that George Ronald Reagan had avoided all presidential debates before that,

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_01]: right? Because he had a campaign manager said, no, we don't need to. We're the front runner.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_01]: We don't need to talk to these people, blah, blah, blah. And people resented it. The Reagan was

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_01]: absent here at all these debates and it fed the rumors too that he was at home because

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_01]: he was too old to run against the president. Now this was, you know, 40 years ago. So

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_01]: he was 69 at the time. And, you know, today that's not 69, oh, yawn, you know? But 40 years ago it was

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_01]: considered to be an elderly man. Was he up to being president? And there were a lot of columns,

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of newspaper reports, a lot of TV reports saying he was too old. Is he dottering? This

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_01]: is not the other thing. I mean, Reagan's age and all the polling came up as number one.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_01]: What is your chief concern about Ronald Reagan? His age, his age, his age. People turn out when he

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_01]: did speak, they turn out just to see him, just to see how old he looked, right? I mean, they told

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_01]: newspaper reports, I only came to see how old he was. You know, I didn't come to shear him or

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_01]: support him. So now it's time for the national debate and Reagan accepts this because he's

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_01]: now running behind George Bush. Pauling in New Hampshire still had him behind George Bush

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_01]: so he accepts it. And Bush, you know, accepts it too, obviously. And there was a minor

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_01]: side drama over the fact that according to the FEC at the time, they couldn't sponsor

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_01]: a debate with just two candidates. They had to invite everybody, unless it was paid for by

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_01]: the campaigns themselves. So the national debate couldn't violate FEC rules by paying for the

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_01]: debate. So the Reagan campaign says, okay, we'll pay for it. Reagan said I'll pay for it. So Reagan

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_01]: voted the bill for the debate himself. So that way he could just make an debate for himself

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_01]: and George Bush and exclude all the other candidates. And so that became a minor dust-up

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_01]: because the other four candidates who were called the national four, you know, showed up and made

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_01]: a scene and that became a side story. Anyway, they have the debate now Reagan is on fire.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he is just clicking on issue after issue about national defense and George Bush's failure

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_01]: as CIA chairman to anticipate Soviet intentions and all these other things. There comes an explosive

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_01]: moment in the debate where Reagan tries to make a point. Mr. Green, the editor, is saying

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Governor, you sit down, you can't talk because now you're turned, dah-dah-dah-dah.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And Reagan finally stands up and explodes. He says, Mr. Green, I am paying for this microphone.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And National High School explodes. 3,000 people there and just goes crazy. Now, and of course,

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_01]: George Bush is sitting there, goody-tousos like this, you know, looking like the schoolboy who

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_01]: you know stole the apple pie or something. So now this is shown on television over and over

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_01]: of Reagan just exploding and for the, for this is happening on a Friday night. And so it's for

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Saturday, Sunday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday for the next four days. And of course,

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Reagan wins the debate big. His boy is installed as front runner and then just really just

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_01]: doesn't walk to the nomination. He's still got a fight for it. But he gets obviously

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_01]: first ballot nomination in 1980 and takes George Bush to produce a unified convention,

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_01]: which is interesting. I'll tell you as a sidebar, I hear these people on cable television talking

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: about VP and their neighbor Trump and they talked about, well, I saw a girl the other night,

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_01]: obviously she has no campaign to go to her own name or name. But she said, well,

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, he's a, he used to pick Rubio because Rubio has really good executive experience.

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm yelling at the TV, I said to Zarina says nobody votes for vice president. Nobody picks

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_01]: a vice president because he can sign a piece of paper, right? There's one reason to pick a VP

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_01]: candidate to produce a unified convention, unified conventions, win in the fall,

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_01]: divided conventions, losing the fall. And you think about over the years,

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_01]: 64 Republicans divided. They lose Democrats United, they win 68. The Democrats united

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_01]: or divided Republicans are united. Republicans win 72. The Democrats are divided Republicans

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_01]: United Republicans win 76. The Democrats are united Republicans are divided. They win 80.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01]: The Democrats are divided the Republicans United. They win down through history. I can point to

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_01]: example after example, after example, unified convention. So that's why you gotta pull the

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_01]: party together. So that's why you pick a vice president, why you pick a qualified vice president.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't mean arguing for picking, you know, some silly candidate or something and

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: a George Clooney or something like this. You can tell me he's qualified, but somebody who

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_01]: was ideologically sympathetic over the delegates to produce a unified convention.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'll tell you, like, you know, like, like Tim Scott. Tim Scott is

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_01]: the perfect choice for Donald Trump. Absolutely. And why do you say that?

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Because he and Rand Paul are the two smartest men in the United States Senate

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_01]: because he's conservative, because he's articulate as hell. Because if I had to debate Tim Scott,

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd be scared to death that, you know, facing him in a debate. I think he would definitely

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_01]: produce a unified convention. He touches all the right, forget the racial buttons.

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_01]: The man is great depth and great intellect. He would be an excellent choice for Trump.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought that his campaign video, when he launched his campaign for this, for running for

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_02]: president right now, even though he's out, I thought that it was a great video. I thought that

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_02]: his speech was good. I heard some people say, oh, well, it's kind of way too scripted or

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_02]: pollsters put it together or whatever. It's like, yeah, but this is a good message.

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_02]: You've got to push aside some of that and just, this is a good message for America.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Focus on the message. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. I mean, look, he ran,

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_01]: but a lot of people, you know, DeSantis ran. Nobody, this is Donald Trump's year.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_01]: This is Donald Trump's year. There's nobody else going to get the Republican nomination

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_02]: other than Donald Trump. That's right. That's right. And I, that's what I thought the whole

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_02]: entire time. I just was like, if they supported Trump, not even they, we supported Trump through

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_02]: everything from 2016 all the way on. Do you think all of a sudden we're going to be like, oh,

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_01]: gee, someone else is running? We'll support you? It's such an important point. We all made a psychic

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_01]: investment in Donald Trump. It's like Richard Nixon is that when even when he resigned in August

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_01]: 74, right, is he still had a base in support because voters had voted for him in 52, 56,

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_01]: 60, 68, 72. So they had voted for him five times. They were not just going to walk away from this man

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_01]: because they made a psychic investment in him. Right. Just as voters have made a psychic

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_01]: investment in Donald Trump, just as voters made a psychic investment in Ronald Reagan.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. That's right. And when we're talking about a vice presidential candidate, what you just

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_02]: were saying about a unified ticket is really interesting. And I've listened to debates online

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and among activists when well, I want this person or I want that person. And I've always just been

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_02]: like, it doesn't matter what we want. It's what the nominee wants. Right. Right. And I kind of

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_02]: have just said, you know, and also what do vice presidents do? Presidents of the Senate. Yeah.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, and if it's not, if they don't have to deal, they don't have to go out and vote for

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_02]: tie breakers in the Senate. Right. Right. Once a millennium, they voted for a tie breaker.

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Then there's not a lot that we're seeing from the vice presidents.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when I was working for a brief time, I worked for George Bush when he was vice president.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was office. I worked for his political, his pack that was getting ready to run him for

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_01]: president in 1998. And he would talk about being vice president. He said he had a motto. He said,

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_01]: you die, fly. You know, his job was to go to funerals. Right. Yeah. And I think that I heard many

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_02]: speeches or several speeches that the vice president of Pence gave while he was, was vice

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_02]: president and he did a great job of explaining what Trump was doing and what the Trump presidency

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and administration was doing. And I think that's an important role for vice president.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the job of the vice president is to support the president. Right. I mean, you got to think

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_01]: long and hard about a time when even, even Gerald Ford, when he was vice president under Nixon,

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_01]: really never broke with Nixon until after Nixon resigned when he said our long national nightmare

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_01]: is over. But he stood pretty loyally by Nixon. I mean, he would let little things leak out

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_01]: at the very in the last couple of months when it was obvious to everybody that Nixon was going

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_01]: to have to resign because he'd lost the, he'd lost the ability to go. He'd lost his basic support.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't have the support of the American people. You don't have any.

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And but he knew to his credit, he was loyal to Nixon and even then was very,

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_01]: very circumspect after Nixon's resignation. But he never really criticized him publicly

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_02]: other than say it's over with. Okay. So as we move forward, Reagan becomes president.

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. And you mentioned that between 76 and 80, he became much better, much better

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_02]: versed in the Soviet more complete, including in the so regarding the Soviets. Yes.

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And that that's really 76. He was already a hawk. He was already a hawk, but he didn't

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_01]: really until until 1980, he really achieved the message. I remember one time during the 80 campaign

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_01]: where he said, we don't need nuclear parity with the Soviets. We need nuclear superiority.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people condemned him for it. But I knew exactly what he meant is that we need to

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_01]: spend the Soviets in the ground so we can defeat them. We need to use every means at our

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_01]: disposal. Radio for Europe, radio Vatican is working with indigenous third party forces like

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_01]: the Musha and the Belva revolution and the Nicaraguan Contras is to knock the Soviets back on

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_01]: defense. That's what we need to do. And so I understood it took me a while for it to sink

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_01]: in. But then I realized what Reagan meant about winning having our we need an arms race is

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_01]: what he said. And because everybody's to grow, we're getting arms race, we're getting arms

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_01]: race, we need another salt free to the Soviets can violate. And that became really one of his

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_02]: legacy is that he defeated the Soviets. So talk about his presidency. Well, that was that was

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_01]: he had three great goals he wanted to achieve because a leader, Jimmy Carter, there was a saying

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_01]: in 1980 going around the country that if you ask Jimmy Carter what time it was, he'd tell you

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_01]: how to build a watch. And if you ask Ronald Reagan what time it was, he say it's time to get this

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_01]: country moving again. Once once a tactician, one as a leader, Reagan didn't sit around

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_01]: scheduling the tennis courts at the White House like Jimmy Carter used to Jimmy Carter used to

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_01]: schedule the president of skates used to decide who could play who couldn't play on the tennis

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_01]: on the White House tennis court. That's insane. He's the president of the United States.

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_01]: tennis courts was by the way, there were two sports. He loves sports, he loves sports,

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_01]: he loved football, he loved baseball, he loved the two sports he despised. One was jogging,

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Neil was tennis, but he probably didn't even know that there were tennis courts at the White

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_01]: House. And you know what, president's not supposed to care about that stuff, right? Right.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_01]: President's supposed to think up, think about big ideas. And so he thought about big ideas.

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_01]: He thought about the restoration of the American morale was most important.

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_01]: He knew, he knew instinctively that that a happy people are productive people.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And after 17 years, we had gone through, America had gone through 17 years of real torture from the

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_01]: time of John Kennedy's assassination through the failure of the Johnson administration,

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_01]: through the failure of Vietnam, through the failure of Nixon's administration,

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_01]: through high inflation, high interest rates through the 70s with Pet Rocks and John Travolta

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and losing the Soviets. And the failure of Jimmy Carter presidency from 1963 to 19,

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_01]: we're used to being winners, right? Americans were winners. We could beat the Nazis. We could beat

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_01]: the Japanese. We could win the Industrial Revolution. We could win the Civil War. I mean,

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_01]: the country could win the Civil War because it really is that we believe in freedom for all, right?

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. Is that from the time of the American Revolution, we pretty much won everything.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_01]: That's part of the American creed, right? It's part of the American exceptionalism. I mean,

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_01]: that is American exceptionalism. I mean, who would think the two little bicycle repair men

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_01]: from Dayton, Ohio would invent an airplane that fly? They were scientists.

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, change the world. They weren't scientists. They didn't have a high school diploma. And yet

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_01]: they changed the world by inventing a heavier than aircraft, right? The atom, the space race,

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_01]: the moon, all these things we win at. So we're not used to losing, but then starting in 1963

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_01]: through 80, we're losing all the time. We're losing Eastern Europe. We're losing the Soviets.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_01]: We're losing the Warsaw Pact. We're losing the war of inflation. We're losing presidents.

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_01]: We're losing everything. And Reagan changes all that. Reagan changes all that because he talks

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_01]: about, you know, the Democratic Party had been the party of the future from the time of,

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_01]: excuse me, from the time of the New Deal up until the time of Kennedy administration, right?

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Happy Days Are Here Again was FDR's theme song. John Kennedy ran for the new frontier,

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_01]: it was the new frontier. And he said, we need to get this country moving again, right? It was

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_01]: always about the future. The Republican Party was the green eye shade, spinach eating bookkeepers.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_01]: We're the nasty old balanced budget guys, right? Only until 1980, Reagan acquired

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_01]: supply side economics and a message for the future, right? No 18 year old wants to hear about how

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_01]: lousy the future is going to be. The way Carter was talking about a future of scarcity,

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_01]: a future of shrinking ties, a future of, you know, he gave a commencement speech at Harvard

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_01]: in 1979. He says, we need to get over in order to fear of communism. You know,

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_01]: that's just the words of second place. And in fact, Henry Kissinger, when he was Secretary of

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_01]: State, his, he said his job was to guide the United States and do an acceptable second place,

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_01]: right? He compared us to Athens and the Soviets to Sparta. And of course, his history was kind

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_01]: of missed, not correct because even though Sparta is reputation as being militant and Athens

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_01]: has the reputation of being the intellect, the Peloponnesian war lost lasted 300 years

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_01]: with Athens actually winning. So he got his history wrong, but everybody knew what he meant.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So I hope all the elites, Henry Kissinger, Jimmy Carter, all the elites have this loser's

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_01]: attitude. Reagan comes out of the West as populist, it's anti-elitist, it's

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_01]: anti-intellectual conservative and projects an entirely different message,

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_01]: entirely different message. And Americans, people like what they hear because, you know,

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember the debate 1980 when he's debating Carter and his, you know, Carter was chatting him on

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_01]: how his tax cuts would be inflationary. And Carter says, how is it inflationary for the

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_01]: government to take your money and spend it the way that you want? But it, but it is inflationary

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_01]: for an American individual to keep their money and spend it the way they want, right? Carter

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_01]: was blah, blah, blah, he had no response to that. Right. Because there isn't a good response to that.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. But I mean, again, it all goes back to individuality, right? Right. Personal freedom,

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_02]: personal dignity, personal privacy. Right. And also being willing to do tax cuts,

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_02]: right? Because I helped grow the economy and you said between 76 and 80.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what he acquired. That's when he started acquiring the supply side economic message.

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember I was with Reagan, there was a me, I think it was a CPAC in the early 80s.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And there was a private reception before the dinner and the group of conservatives we were

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_01]: standing around Reagan, he was talking about because his tax cuts were on the

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_01]: in the proposal stage of Congress, they hadn't been passed yet. He said, look,

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I know a lot of people are saying about the tax cuts, but it's not just about economic

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_01]: growth and stimulating the economy. It's also about sending sending power away from

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_01]: the government back to the individual. Reagan knew power cannot be destroyed nor created.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Power can only been moved around and power in the form of the regulation of speech in the form

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_01]: of taxes had been moving steadily from the time of the New Deal up until the Carter's presidency,

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_01]: power had been moving away from the individual in the states and localities to the national government.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Reagan wanted to reverse that as a true federalist, right? He wanted power for the individual,

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_01]: not for the state. So that was the framework for a new federalism theme of his

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_01]: administration was to send power back to the individual. And it worked well, right?

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_01]: It worked very well. Yeah. And then created 18 million new jobs, right? He created when he became

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_01]: president there were 4,000 millionaires. When he left as president there were 34,000 millionaires

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_01]: is that he eradicated high interest rates, he eradicated high inflation. He shrunk the size

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_01]: of, as he promised, he shrunk the size of Washington because he grew the size of the

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_01]: so I mean in the best of Jefferson, you know people used to say well Louisiana Purchase

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_01]: proved that Jefferson wasn't much of a constitutionalist or a federalist. No,

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_01]: it doesn't. It proves just the opposite. He was because what the Louisiana Purchase was six times

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_01]: the size in land mass of the existing country but he doesn't grow the size of the government,

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_01]: he only grows the size of the country. So that by definition takes power away from Washington

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_01]: and sends it back. It diffuses. It's bigger, yeah it's a bigger space. And that's what Reagan was

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_01]: doing with his anti- speech regulation you know don't forget he signed the fairness,

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_01]: he refused to sign the fairness document. And why is that important? Because it gave people

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_01]: the right to speak the way they wanted. The fairness document had been on the books for

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_01]: many years, right? And for years they had it if Jenny Beth Martin goes on W ABC in New York

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_01]: City and talks for half an hour by American conservatism, they got to pick Ralph Nader to come

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_01]: on for a half an hour to talk about American liberalism. And it was just a bureaucratic nightmare.

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And so often times radio shows wouldn't have on Jenny Beth Martin because then they got to go

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_01]: through the whole rigmarole of getting a liberal and giving him equal time. Reagan said this

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_01]: is nonsense. He violates the First Amendment, violates free speech. So he refused to renew

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_01]: the fairness document. There were a lot of conservatives like Phyllis Schlafly who were

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_01]: actually upset with him for not renewing it. But it spawned the growth of hundreds of conservative

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_01]: talk radio stations around the country which is for us is an important part of communication

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_01]: because we know what the networks are like, we know what the big city newspapers are like,

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_01]: but now we have your podcast and we have thousands of other podcasts and we have

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_01]: talk radio, we have Newsmax and Fox and other cable systems and our own newspapers, Washington

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Times and Washington, so we have our own communications infrastructure that we didn't have 40 years ago.

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And today when people say, oh, we're up against the mainstream media and how tough it is,

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's tough to be sure, but it is not nearly as tough as when you had none of the other

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_02]: conservative networks to spread your voice. When I was coming up with this business,

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_01]: what many years ago when I was young is we didn't have any of that. We didn't have any.

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_01]: We had National View and the Human Events. Those were our publications and there were a

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_01]: couple of newsletters like Pink Sheet on the lap, stuff like that. But that was our formal

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_01]: communication. NBC, you're a conservative, hang up the phone. They wouldn't talk to us,

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_01]: wouldn't give us the time of day, is that they carried all liberal message. And it's astonishing

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_01]: that we're able to win given that communications blackout. It's astonishing that we were able to win

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_01]: starting in, I mean, I wouldn't include Nixon because Nixon wasn't conservative, he was a Republican,

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_01]: but starting in the 70s, we started pushing back and we started winning because we were

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_01]: getting our message out. And a big portion of that really is direct mail. A big reason for that is

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_01]: it was biggery and other direct mailers for allowing servers to use the post office to get

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_01]: their message out because they couldn't get it out anyplace else. Direct, just direct to the

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_02]: mailbox. Direct contact without. And I actually think in the 2024 campaign, that direct contact

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_02]: is going to be very important yet again because you're getting so many messages on

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_02]: social media and so many messages in your text and so many messages everywhere else.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So many bad messages. Yes, so many bad messages that direct contact is a little bit unexpected

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_02]: to be sure. And the message was one that did resonate with where Americans were,

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_02]: American exceptionalism, they were feeling down, they needed to restore that American morale.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that always showed, you know, American liberalism had dominated American politics from

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_01]: the time of the New Deal up until the late 1970s. And Paulie started popping up saying,

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_01]: the country is growing conservative, not liberal. It was a two to one. It was just not sure.

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Despite all their efforts, it still was going conservative.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_01]: It was going two to one for two reasons. One, we were getting our message out,

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_01]: not well, but we're going to get a message out. And the object values of liberalism.

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, liberalism failed to or government was put it this way. Government failed to

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_01]: check John Kennedy. Government failed to win the Vietnam War. Government failed to

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_01]: secure inflation. Government failed to cure high taxes. Government failed at many different levels

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_01]: for the 1960s and 70s. And so there has to be an answer to that. If government is failing them,

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_01]: then what is the answer? The answer is the individual, not government. And Reagan came along

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_01]: at the right moment and the right time to convey his message.

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you see similarities between what Reagan feasts with Biden and what Trump feasts,

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry, with Reagan feasts, you can tell where I'm going. Do you see similarities between

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_02]: what Reagan feasts with Carter and what Trump feasts right now with Biden? You see,

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_01]: he played Biden in- I was laughing because I've read some of these nonsensical stories

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_01]: comparing Reagan's normity speech with Biden's normity speech.

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_01]: The only- I did a TV interview this morning and I said,

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I said Reagan's speech was for the ages. Biden's speech was for the minutes.

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and Biden's speech was plagiarizing a knockoff.

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_01]: He's going to plagiarize his whole life.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_01]: What else is new? He's a plagiarist, but he doesn't say it with conviction.

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't say it with any intellect. He doesn't say it with any moral authority.

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And I've listened to the comparisons of the two and I just think, wow,

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Reagan just- he sounded like he believed what he was saying. It was coming from his heart.

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_01]: He truly, truly, truly believed in the righteousness of his cause

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and that what he was saying was right, was correct. And history proved him correct.

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_02]: It absolutely did. It seems like as we look at it, and I think about where the country was

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_02]: with Carter, there's so many similarities to Carter and Biden right now. The inflation,

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_02]: hostages, the Afghanistan withdrawal.

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, think of the Afghanistan as the Soviets invade Afghanistan 79 and Carter

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_01]: foolishly invites them, right? Carter does an interview on issues and answers on ABC.

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_01]: It says no, Afghanistan is not in our defensive perimeter. Within weeks, the Soviet Union

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_01]: invades Afghanistan. Biden says, 40 years later, it says no, Ukraine is not part of

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_01]: our defensive perimeter. Within weeks, the Russian invades Ukraine, right?

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But then also the comparison between Afghanistan because our weakness in the face of it

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_01]: with Carter and then our weakness with withdrawal with Biden, which by the way,

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_01]: he went against all his military advisors said no, Mr. President, this is not a good idea.

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_01]: This is not a good idea to believe. A terrorist base open and available in Afghanistan. We have

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_01]: to keep the presence there. And he says, no, I'm going to take him out. Consequences to be damned.

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, 13 US service people were killed because of Joe Biden.

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And it just is a horrific image of the planes leaving and people hanging onto the planes.

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure. And then when we watch how Biden is responding to Hamas and Israel, it's as if he wants

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Israel to accept losing what you were saying about Carter wanting to just sort of accept

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_02]: second place for America. I feel like Biden wants us to accept second place. We don't have

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_01]: to be the winner. Well, Carter was an Arabist. Carter was anti-Israel. There's no doubt about

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_01]: it is that he said it. He said it in so many ways, so many different times. He did. I was to Carter's

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_01]: credit. He did negotiate the Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt and produced a durable

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_01]: peace. So still those two countries still pieces Joe, then Carter deserves to credit for it.

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_01]: But he was not. He was no fan of Menachem Begin, who was then the Israeli president.

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_01]: He was very tough on Israel. He was very, very open to the Arabs just as Joe Biden is. Joe Biden

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_01]: has taken a step further. I mean, Joe Biden has a long history going back to his days in the

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Senate of being anti-Israel and that he didn't in his speech. He talks about World War II and

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_01]: he talks about the sacrifice of Normandy, but it does talk about the war come.

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_01]: How can you not do that? How can you? Part of the, not the whole reason,

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_01]: but a big part of the reason for World War II was the extermination of 10 or 11 million people,

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_01]: not just 6 million Jews, but 4 million undesirables. Everything from homosexuals to

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_01]: political opponents to Poles to Russians who were all went through many of the Nazi death camps.

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, there were many Nazis. There wasn't just Auschwitz or Treblinka or Dachau.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I researched this one time. The Nazis had something like 45 different death camps spread out all

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_01]: through Eastern Europe. But for him to not mention the Holocaust, not to mention the state of Israel,

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_01]: which was created after World War II as a direct result of the Holocaust, not to mention

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_01]: the anti-Semitism in this country going on right now that's brought about by the Democratic

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_01]: left is shameful. It's absolutely shameful. It truly is. And in November, Americans will,

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_02]: they have a, they're going to have a very distinct choice and they're going to have to decide are

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_01]: they better off right now than they were four years ago? They're better off economically, but

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_02]: also they're better off spiritually. And is our country better off? You feel safer right

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_02]: now than you felt four years ago? Do you feel safe? Do you feel like the war, the world is at

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_02]: a steady place or are we on the precipice of war? I think a lot of Americans feel that.

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, absolutely. And you know a lot about Normandy and about World War II. I know this

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_02]: book isn't about Normandy, but you have, we've talked about Reagan books. You know about...

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_01]: The 1944. And I don't know if I have that one in here. Yeah, August 1944, which was the,

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_01]: which was the sequel to December 1941. December 41 and then you also have August 1944.

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, yes. Which you don't have out here. 1945. 1945, which you don't have out here.

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_02]: But both of those are, you've researched World War II as well. So when we talk about

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Normandy, it isn't just... That's just an echo of history. I've studied it. I've

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_01]: studied it. I've read about it. I've interviewed people about it. I had a friend,

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Lenapsinger, who's a very dear friend of mine, who was a Reagan aide. He was a young army ranger,

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_01]: 19 year old army ranger on Omaha Beach on June 6, 1944. These two fingers on his right hand,

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_01]: these were gone because when he was climbing the cliffs, his fingers got blown off by Nazi shrapnel.

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So he had, he was missing these two fingers. Wow. Yeah. And he just had to keep going.

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_01]: He kept going. Yeah, kept going. And he was so, you know, he was so matter of fact about it.

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember talking to him many times. Len was a very good guy and a very good friend.

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And he was just kind of, it was, America, it was the greatest generation. He was,

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_01]: he was representative of the American generation, of the greatest generation because he was very,

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_01]: sure I did it, but you know what? Anybody could have done. You know, is that type of

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_01]: no, not anybody could have done. You did it. But he refused to accept, to, to decorate himself

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_01]: in glory about it and braid around with the medals and things like that. It was just something

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_01]: he had to do. Right. Like millions of other young Americans.

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. And thank goodness they did.

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank God they did.

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I took both of my, each of my children on separate trips to Normandy and, and I'm so glad that

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I did that. My daughter and I did it sort of a happenstance. The first time I ever went to Europe,

[00:49:42] [SPEAKER_02]: she and I, and her brother were there. And then the two of us stayed longer and he had to go back

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_02]: for a Boy Scout camp, come back home to America. And we stayed longer and I was like,

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_02]: okay, we'll stay longer, but we're going to Normandy. Right.

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_02]: We're close. There's a tour. We're going. And then after I finished, she wound up becoming

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_02]: an exchange student in Spain and her twin brother and I went and met her to bring her back. And I

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_02]: wanted to meet the family that graciously hosted her. Wonderful. And so we're going to go pick

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_02]: her up. But first you're going to Normandy. Right. And, and so this week is the 80th anniversary

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_02]: was happening. And that's for last week. And that's when we're filming this, even

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_02]: this episode of making it out a little bit later. Excellent. I was sending them photos and

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_02]: going, remember we both went there. This is a big deal. Just pay attention to, right, to what an

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_01]: enormous accomplishment. Yeah. It is the war for civilization. The Nazis were evil. You know,

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Stutz Terkel was the famous novel, not novelist, he was the famous writer about many things

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_01]: about American culture, but he wrote a book called The Good War. And it was the good war if

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_01]: war has to be good because we're the good guys. There was no moral ambiguity between the two.

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_01]: The Nazis were evil. We were good. And so I mean that's why that's part of the reason why

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_01]: it's such an important war because it is to defeat evil and it is a battle for American

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_01]: world civilization. Not just America. Not just American world civilization.

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And survival of the Jewish people as well. Yes. Yeah. Who would have surely been exterminating

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_02]: if Hitler had his way. Wiped off the face of the earth. Well, and everything that is old is new

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_02]: again. So we have to fight these battles sadly over and over in our own time to remind.

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Mark Twain once said history does not repeat itself but it does rhyme.

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Craig, we're going to pause right here and in this first half, this first podcast episode,

[00:51:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and then we'll resume in the next episode. Okay. So we have been joined today by Craig Shirley,

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_00]: who is historian and author. The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin, produced

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_00]: by Kevin Mooneyham and directed by Luke Livingston. The Jenny Beth Show is a production

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_00]: of Tea Party Patriots Action. For more information, visit teapartipatriots.org.

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_02]: If you liked this episode, let me know by hitting the like button or leaving a comment

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[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_02]: If you do these simple things, it will help the podcast grow and I'd really appreciate it.

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.