Mamdani's Grocery Stores: A Romanian Who Stood in the Bread Lines Answers | Ovidiu Frusina

[00:00:00] I sat down with people from five countries who know what communism actually does. Today we'll hear more about what happened to them in communist countries, to their families, their food, their churches, and their futures. My guest is Ovidiu Frusina. In the 1980s, Romania was the hardest-lying communist country in the entire Warsaw Pact. Harder than Russia. Think about what that means. By the mid-80s, the Soviet Union was loosening.

[00:00:29] Gorbachev, Perestroika, Glasnost. And while Moscow eased, Bucharest tightened. A teenager in Romania in 1985 was less free than a teenager in Russia. Ovidiu grew up in that. Cold apartments because heat was rationed. Elderly people standing in line for four or five hours just for a piece of bread. And you could not ask why, because if you asked why, the police came for you. They came for him when he was 20.

[00:00:57] They took him and beat him. And then his mother suffered for it, and his brother suffered for it. In 1990, he left for America, and he built everything here. Computer science, his own consulting business for children, and his wife. The girl he was writing letters to, the defector that made him a traitor, plays violin in the Houston Symphony.

[00:01:23] A government looked at that young man writing letters to a girl he loved and decided he was a danger. Here's Oviedo Frasina. Welcome to The Jenny Beth Show. Ovi, thank you so much for joining me today.

[00:01:53] Very nice to meet you and be here. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you a little bit about my history. My history. I, we were just chatting as we were beginning. I am really, you've got quite an amazing story. And I just want you to tell people where are you from and what was life like growing up for you?

[00:02:12] Sure. So I was born in 1967 in Bucharest, Romania. Bucharest is a capital of Romania and population of about 2 million people.

[00:02:25] I was born in a socialist country, moving towards communism. So there are some differences between socialism and communism. But at that time, Romania was ruled by the Communist Party, a very ruthless dictator. His name was Nicolae Ceausescu. And Romania was not part of the Soviet Union, right? That is correct.

[00:02:55] Most people, I think, get that confused. No. Romania has always been an independent country. We had ties with the Soviet Union as far as politics is concerned. Right.

[00:03:09] All I can tell you from the history that I've been told by my grandparents that starting the First World War, 1918, there was a Bolshevik revolution that spread in the region and basically penetrated in the Romanian territories. But Romania was an independent state. Okay. Okay. So there is a brutal dictator, a ruthless dictator. Sure.

[00:03:37] So Nicolae Ceausescu. I lived 21 years, 22 years under his regime. Nicolae Ceausescu was a president that basically was not only uneducated. He was born in a very poor family, they said. And he was by trade a shoemaker.

[00:04:02] Basically, he was born in a very poor family, he was born in a very poor family.

[00:04:16] So people will ask, well, how come did he get the power? How did he manage to do so? Well, he was very ruthless. And the story goes that after the Second World War, when the communists took power of Romania, basically he got caught stealing a suitcase.

[00:04:41] And he stole a suitcase. And when he got caught, there were documents, there were communist propaganda documents in there. And I guess that the people in power at the time, they were so impressed, they said, oh, he's one of ours.

[00:04:55] And they gave him a lot. And they gave him a position in the party. And it took him approximately, let's say, 15 to 20 years to be able to destroy the competition. And I mean by that killing or, you know, eliminating competition. And at some point, he was the one. So he got into power by being a ruthless individual.

[00:05:23] So from that point, once Romania has basically became a socialist communist country, the first thing that they've done, it's basically removed the private property.

[00:05:39] And everything became for the people, to the people. And that's what you would think, you know, you would probably think that 1840s or so, when Marx and Marx and Engels, I believe, what was his name?

[00:06:04] And I'm sorry, I may be a little bit hazy right now. But Marx and Engels, they decided to imagine this unbelievable utopic society of communism, where everybody will give to the society according to their abilities, and they will take back from the society according to their needs.

[00:06:30] And everybody's equal. And everybody's equal. And it's great, if you think about that. But, you know, it's not that easy. Who's going to decide about your ability? Who's going to decide about your needs? So then there are mechanisms in place in a socialist society where not everybody is equal. There are some more privileged people than the regular people.

[00:06:55] And then you start looking at this social, let's say, connections between the ones that have control and power, and then the rest of the people. And you realize, I mean, it is not exactly what they say it is.

[00:07:15] I was born in, I shall say, a society that didn't have crime the way you see in other societies. Because in a socialist environment, the police, it's quite strong. You have to police the people. They're not very happy with what's happening.

[00:07:38] So as a child, you don't see these things. You go to school. The school is good. It's the education of, let's say, Eastern Bloc countries, not necessarily Romania. The education is very good. It's advanced. By the time you graduate, you're 12th year. That science and math and all that, it's been already given to you.

[00:08:07] So you go to university. University is not like in the United States where everybody can go find a place and get a higher education. Over there, everything is controlled by the Communist Party. But as a child, I grew up in a good environment. I wasn't aware of drugs on the streets. People did not have guns, so I was not afraid I'll get shot or anything like this.

[00:08:33] So the society had some benefits in that regard. The problem is you turn to be 15, 16 years of age, and what you learn in school, you realize it's not exactly what's on the street. It's not exactly what they're telling you it is. Whether you study political science, whether you study history, you look out there and, oh, wait a minute, what's going on? So you start having questions.

[00:09:01] And that's when they know that they have to control you. That's when they pressure your parents. That's when they pressure your peers, your teachers in schools that you've got to stay focused with the ideas of communism and, you know, equality between people, a society that everybody is the same.

[00:09:26] So you look at this and say, okay, they say America, it's bad. And then they control the television. You get two hours of television every night. And you look there and they're showing people living under the bridges. They show people not having food in the United States. And they tell you this is what the capitalist system does.

[00:09:49] You know, you have an unbelievable opportunity to live and grow in a free country like Romania where everybody is equal and everybody has opportunities. So we can talk a little bit about that. And it's so much to cover. I wouldn't even know where to start on my own. But just to give people an example, you go to school and you're a young child and you wear a uniform.

[00:10:19] So the uniform has a little emblem on the side that's got your matriculation number. It's an ID, a number that if I walk on the streets at noon when I'm supposed to be in school and somebody will see you, they report you. You get yourself in trouble. Okay. So everybody has a uniform. Everybody has to be in school. So, yes, it's great. You don't talk back to the teachers. You don't.

[00:10:47] I mean, it's simple as that. But then you ask the teacher, but why if this is so great, why do we have to stay four hours in line to get a piece of bread? Why does retired people have to wake up at 2 a.m. in the morning and stand in a line of 500 people for a pack of two pounds of meat of whatever it is? You can choose. You can't choose.

[00:11:16] There is the grocery store. You know, it's the meat department section is done because towards 1980s, let's say 85s or so, things have gotten so out of control. The only thing that the government could sell was food. So people didn't have it. The energy was expensive.

[00:11:40] So you got to go to school in the morning or let's say to work because I think about my parents. And there is hot water. And there is hot water maybe for two hours in the morning. That's all there is. They control the agent that brings the hot water to a complex apartment. It's not up to you. It's not like you can turn the heat on. And this is not how it is. There is not enough gas for the people on the streets.

[00:12:07] If the fortunate ones that were able to get the car, at some point, they had restrictions on when to drive, how to drive. The food became so scarce that you couldn't go to a place and buy stuff. The government will give you a ration, a portion. You get the ticket. You are a family of four.

[00:12:33] You go present it someplace and they give you a fixed amount of oil and sugar and wheat and the bare necessities, let's say for a month. Then you use it. You're done. It's not like you can go and get some more. So things have become worse as 1988, 1989. Ceaușescu was worried that stuff is going to happen to him.

[00:13:01] He was so protected. He had an army just to protect himself. It's not like you get out on the street and he can walk anywhere. Oh, people will jump on him. The life was brutal, was difficult. And yet my mom, my dad will do anything they can to put food on the table and to provide an opportunity to get an education.

[00:13:28] So we can talk about education because it was very important to understand the differences. Now that I'm here in the United States and I've studied and I went to school and I understand the differences. Okay. So in Romania, the government, it's mandatory for you to go to school for 12 years. You have no choice. You cannot be on the streets. You can't do anything. Yeah, you get reported.

[00:13:56] So you have to be in high schools. Now, when you finish your eighth grade, you have to take an exam to go to a high school. And there are different high schools with, let's say, you want to become a doctor. You will go to a high school that specializes in physics and biology and chemistry. You want to become an engineer.

[00:14:24] You will go to a high school that you will study mathematics and physics and chemistry again. But you will have a route to go from an earlier age towards your specialty, whatever you'd like to do. So the best high schools in Bucharest were for the best students.

[00:14:50] So you pass this exam and you now get into your, let's say, choice of a high school where you study what you think you want to do in life. And let's say you are there for the next four years. There is another exam to take in between the 10th grade and 11th grade. But we call them steps. But the best, only the best of the best will go to those high schools.

[00:15:18] The rest of the high schools, you know, there is a spot for everybody. You can be on the street, right? But now that you prepare yourself for higher education, you graduate, you get your baccalaureate done. And now you have about 30, 40 days to get yourself into a competition for seats in different universities.

[00:15:46] Since it's a centralized economy, the government will tell you this year we want to produce 60 doctors. So there will be 60 spots available and there'll be a thousand candidates. And they have to go. And for two, three days, they will take exams in biology and chemistry and physics. And then the best of the best will make it to the university.

[00:16:11] If you are a girl and you don't make it, then you still stay home. You'll be enlisted into some sort of a military service. But the boys will have to get into a mandatory military service. If you make it to the university, then the military service is nine months. If you don't, then it's going to be a year and four months.

[00:16:38] Or if you get into, let's say, naval, that's two years. So the reason I mentioned this to you, if you are a boy and you did not prepare yourself good enough to get to the university once you graduated high school, now you are in a military service. You don't study. You don't have time for that.

[00:17:02] So it'll be almost impossible when you come back from the military service to go back and try to compete. Because now you're competing against the people graduating and possible the women that didn't make it the first year, they study for another year and they make it again. So basically from that point on, you go to university and you study for four years, sometimes four and a half, depending on your specialty.

[00:17:31] And you don't really pay. So you're going to say, wow, it's so great. You get your free education. And there is some truth to it because I didn't have to pay. Okay. But the way you repay the government is after you graduate and you get your diploma, the government will send you to work for three years in a very remote location.

[00:17:56] And locations like here, you would call them, how should I say, underpopulated or rural. Rural. Rural. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody wants them. So this is the way you repay your education in Romania. And after those three years, then you can probably find connections and relation, you know, friendships and you find jobs somewhere else. Okay. Closer to home or whatever.

[00:18:25] So that is the education in Romania. But if there is only, let's say the government says this year we want to produce 200 mechanical engineers, there are two spots and there is 25,000 kids that graduate over the country. And there are maybe four or five major universities throughout the country. And you'll have some spots here, some spots there, there, there.

[00:18:53] So it's a big competition to do it. That is why if you were to bring some Romanian kids in the United States, they will be ahead of a lot of kids that graduate here because they are just so, they study so intense to do something about the education. Now, why do we want education? Why do we want education when the government says all the engineers get paid the same,

[00:19:19] all the doctors get paid the same, and we tell you how much we're going to pay you. So there is something that is so difficult to understand for people here, because here you go to work and you work as hard as you can because you hope that you're going to be rewarded. That's what humans do. We wake up in the morning and we go to work because,

[00:19:44] and we work as hard as we can because we have to provide for our families and all that. But I want to have a better life. So what do I do? I work harder. I work more. Or, you know, I get an education. And then with my education, I can get paid better. Because what is the definition of a salary, for example?

[00:20:07] Well, here it's based on the kind of work that you do and if you're really good at your job or not. Of course. But it's also the willingness of somebody to pay you what you are worth. That is right. Because you can be an engineer here and you work at the company and they'll pay you so much. That's right. Or you can go to other, right? There is no such a thing in Romania. In a socialist environment, you graduate, you are an engineer, and this is what you make.

[00:20:37] This is what the government says you will get paid. So now you go to work and there is five other engineers next to you. And guess what? Do you have any desire to work harder? Do you have any desire to accomplish anything? Because you get paid. Whether you do something or not, you get paid. Now, I could make a little correction. Because in Romanian factories, yes, we don't have board of directors.

[00:21:06] We don't have a CEO. We don't have that. But we have a director. But then right there is the Communist Party. And they dictate what's going to happen. So the Communist Party comes to the director, which happens to be, let's say, in a whatever plant, manufacturing plant, and say, hey, you're going to have to produce a thousand parts like this. And then he says, okay, but I don't have prime material. But I don't care. You find a way to do it.

[00:21:34] So now the director goes to his five engineers, hey, we got to do a thousand parts like this. The engineers look at him and say, but we don't have, I don't want to hear this. I don't care how you do it. Go ahead and do it. So, yes, there is that type of relationship where now the engineers have to go and learn to produce something out of nothing. Let's say.

[00:22:02] Say they produce it. Some shape or form, they produce it. Now they go back and they report to the director. We've done it. The director is very happy. And he reports to the Communist Party. Here is your thousand parts. Now you don't know how good they are. You don't know if they're. Whether they work or not. They work or not. It doesn't matter. With the pressure. Right. It doesn't matter. So then the second month now, the Communist Party says, oh, great.

[00:22:32] Now I want two thousand. Twice as many. And the director goes, oh, my God. I mean, how am I going to do this? So now it trickles down to the engineers. So the engineers decide, instead of finding ways to produce, to bribe the Communist Party guy that comes and counts the parts. So the guy shows up from the Communist Party and it goes there and, hey, where are 2,000 parts?

[00:23:00] There's only 600. But now he gets bribed. Oh, okay. I saw 2,000. Even though there were only 600. So he signs the piece of paper that shows that, oh, yeah, that's great. This plant is doing great. They produce. And again, there is not enough. Okay. But nobody cares because you start bribing.

[00:23:24] So we are developing the relationship in a society where everything is about bribing. Okay. Examples now. The parts, it's an example of whatever manufacturing. But what if we apply this in agriculture? What if we apply this to your food? In food. Yeah. Where the government says, okay, in Bucharest there are 2 million people. We need 2 million loaves of bread.

[00:23:51] The factories, though, they have no materials to produce 2 million loaves of bread daily. They may produce half of it or whatever. So you really cannot feed the people. But they lie. They bribe somebody that it's been produced. And now the Communist Party goes on television and they say, wow, it's so great. We are feeding the people of Bucharest. Everybody's happy and all that. But the reality is half of them didn't eat that day.

[00:24:19] That loaf of bread that never existed. So you develop now relationship with, let's say, the butchers. The butchers receive 2,000 packets of meat. They put 400 packets aside. They sell 1,600 packets to the people that have been in line for 4, 5, 10 hours. Okay. And nobody can go in there and control.

[00:24:49] Hey, where is the rest? They don't know. They don't know how much the, let's say, the big truck delivered. I have no idea. People have no idea. So the guys now, they put 400 packs aside and they make phone calls to their friends and family. And they come and get some. But now you have to pay two, three times more for them. It's, you know, so we call this under the table economic relations.

[00:25:16] So I'm going to switch from this now into people talk about socialized medicine. Yeah. So yes, it's great. Medicine is free. Socialized medicine is free in Romania. But if I tell you that they have no drugs to give you, they have no beds to provide service to you. My mom was in a hospital for a surgery and in the restroom, there is no toilet paper. And I asked the nurses, I'm sorry, everybody steals them.

[00:25:46] We don't have enough. They don't put them there. You need to go to the restroom and you ask for a piece of paper to do that. And this is just, you know, my mom needed a surgery. She took a fall and broke her hip. Somebody called me from Romania. Hey, your mom is in the hospital. She broke her back. You immediately, you know, get yourself a ticket and go and see what's going on. And I go in the hospital.

[00:26:16] They don't let people go in the hospital because the visiting time, it's between 4 and 6 p.m. So I look at him. Of course, I was born in Romania. I know how this works. And I look at him. I said, dude, I, you know, I traveled oceans and, you know, continents to go and see my mom. She's elderly. I don't even know how she looks. So I give him $10 under the table.

[00:26:45] I could go in and out anytime I wanted, whatever hour I wanted. And what's making it sick is I look at people behind me that they cannot go through. What do I do? Do I bribe for everybody to go through? I can't do that. Okay. So I go in and I see my mom and she is in a deplorable condition. Nobody takes care of anything. She's soiled herself. It's in the bed. Ah.

[00:27:15] So I do what you do in a socialized medicine. You get all the nurses. You buy them lunch. You go and bribe them. Every day you go there, everybody gets, you know, some form of a payment. You go to the doctor and you ask what's going on over here. And suddenly he realizes that I am an American. Oh, your mom. Oh, oh, now I understand.

[00:27:41] Oh, mom receives care and he receives thousands of dollars in his pocket. Even though he gets... Free healthcare. For free healthcare. Because that's what people don't... Free healthcare. The 911, you're going to wait for an ambulance for hours to come. But if you call your friend that you know he works there, he'll come right away.

[00:28:01] So people do not understand, really do not understand how socialized medicine works in a socialist country. You're sick. You go to the doctor. But your neighborhood has a facility that you have to go and see your family doctor first. And you go and you have to bribe him. Otherwise, he's busy.

[00:28:25] The door is locked and he, you know, it's not like you call and he's just standing in line. And you have to pay the lady at the desk that makes the appointments. Otherwise, you don't pass through. So you go and you talk to your family doctor. And, hey, I'm really sick, doctor. Well, what's going on? And you tell him what's wrong. Well, you need a specialist. I cannot treat you for this. So where do I go? Well, you got to go to the big hospital.

[00:28:53] Maybe there are four or five hospitals. Big, nice hospitals. Beautiful. And the doctors are amazing there. But there is no light bulb in the surgery room. Or there is, you know, the equipment that's supposed to help. It's not there because that's coming from the government's budget. And the government doesn't have money. They spend whatever they spend. But now, if you are part of the special people, then all the doors open.

[00:29:23] You can go to the unique hospital for secret service, police. And you can go right through. And everything is there for you. And the rest of the people, well, sorry. It's how it is. So you got to try to go and see a doctor, a specialized doctor. And if you do not pay, lots of money. And I'm going to give you an example. It's my example. I was 21 years old.

[00:29:51] And I was going into the exams period at the university. So you cannot really miss them. And I have an appendicitis crisis. I've never had it before. And it was, I couldn't, I mean, the pain was like so bad. I couldn't study. I couldn't do anything. So my mom that worked for a military unit in Romania, the military, they have their own military hospital.

[00:30:21] So my mom grabs the phone, makes a phone call. And she goes with me. We go through. Otherwise, you have to wait a week or two or three for an appointment. But I go through with my mom. And I see this wonderful doctor. And he says, oh my gosh, it's infected. We got to do a surgery. So if you were to consider Romanian money similar to American money, you would probably pay about $3,000.

[00:30:51] So if you work for $3,000 a month, you will have to use $3,000 to pay the doctor just to do the surgery because it's a free social system. It's supposed to be free. But you got to pay that. Otherwise, you go to a doctor. You don't know. Would it be a cut that is this big or this big? Would it be done in a clean environment or you can get infected with something else? You have to pay the nurses.

[00:31:20] You have to pay everything. You have the surgery. Now you are a recovery room. That's the most important thing, the recovery. And if you don't pay the nurses, they don't come and see you. If you are in pain, they don't bring you pain medicine. So can I explain this to all these kids that I see them with the plan cards that they won socialism? They have no idea what it is. No idea. They have no idea. You mentioned that it's four hours in a bread line just to get bread. Yes.

[00:31:49] And you talked about a retired person who would have to wake up basically in the middle of the night to go get in line to get food. Yes. And you talked about the rationing. The young people in America, right? They don't understand this. They just simply, that's why we're doing this. I'm not casting stones at them. They've never lived under this. And they weren't alive when President Reagan was around.

[00:32:17] So they didn't see the country talking about the evils of socialism and communism. We've had to fight terrorism in their lifetime. But now they're clamoring for something that you and I both know it results in. It never works. It always fails. And evil provides it.

[00:32:43] What's very interesting is that there are plenty of examples out there right now. Why don't you want to immigrate to Cuba, Venezuela, Russia, China? I don't see people line up to go and say, I want to live in these countries. Why don't you try to see which country has been really successful in implementing these socialist communist rules?

[00:33:11] Now, a lot of people will argue with me, but, you know, Europe, it's full of these countries. You know, you take France, for example, and you would think, yeah, well, go and try to make a living in France and see what socialism is all about. You know, go and try to make a living in Denmark. It's a wonderful society. Wonderful society.

[00:33:34] But you don't understand these societies unless you try to go there and live and make a living. Don't go there as a, you know, I'm going to have a vacation in Italy and I'm going to say, wow, Italy is unbelievable. Yes, absolutely. It's beautiful. I would recommend any time, any day, any day, go and visit Italy and France and Germany and all these countries. There is so much history. It's so much beauty.

[00:34:01] I would recommend to go and see the history in Russia. Russia in the 1800s and beginning of 1900s. Wonderful. What the Tsars have done there as far as arts and culture, it's unbelievable. But then you have 100 years of communism and see what it is now. See what people's mentality is and try to understand why is everybody trying to come to America?

[00:34:29] Because America is a country where you can be whoever you want to be. It is up to you to become whoever you want to become. Other countries, you cannot do that. It's way much more complicated for all the reasons and, you know, social reasons, religious reasons, language barriers. America is a land of opportunity and it'll always stay like that.

[00:34:56] But if we're not very careful and we try to bring America on its knees by introducing these social systems that have never been successful anywhere else, then we have a situation. And my guess, I would probably speak for you, but you want to leave this society for your children in a better condition that you found it.

[00:35:19] I was very grateful that at the age of 23, I was granted the biggest opportunity of my life. I was allowed to live in a free society and I will always be grateful. I have a family of four children and they're free. They can think for themselves.

[00:35:39] Of course, I implemented in them the desire of knowledge and understanding that if you are an educated person, the world is at your feet. OK, but you need a free country because you can be educated in other countries. For example, Iran. Iran had unbelievable, unbelievable educated people 50 years ago.

[00:36:07] And guess where they are today? Would you want to go and live there? No. Now, it's more complicated as a society because there is also a religious problem there. But when you look what America has accomplished in 250 years, we are such a young country. How did we do it?

[00:36:29] How is it possible that in just 250 years, this country was able to become what it is today? Well, let's take that as an example. Let's give people the ability to think, to be free, to work, to enjoy the fruit of their labor and provide for their families.

[00:36:57] It is just I am just blown away to see what's happening on televisions these days. And I like to study. I, you know, I left something behind because I wanted my family to live in a different environment. So I look at this and I talk to my children all the time. I'm worried about them. I'm worried if somebody will start putting something in their head that they don't understand because it's easy to do it when they're young. I'm not.

[00:37:27] I'm telling you the truth. I'm telling you the truth.

[00:37:59] An option. Oh, you don't like math. Let's study something else. Uh-uh-uh. The whole world, it's based on mathematics. Yeah. So you've got all these Eastern European bloc countries. They're so good in sciences because they know, they understand. You've got Chinese and Indians.

[00:38:20] They're so good in sciences because they know education is what's going to elevate them to a better level for them and their families. So here in the United States, the education system gives opportunities to the kids to do sometimes nothing. Oh, this is hard. I don't want to take this. Oh, I feel so. I'm so sad.

[00:38:45] I want in my corner and I want to stay in my corner because I can believe that this president is now in power and I cannot do my. What is this? It's so immature. I need my space. Yeah. What is this? Well, and imagine they need their safe space and you were in a country where you couldn't even get hot water but for two hours a day. There was no water. There was very little food. Not no water, but there was no hot water.

[00:39:15] There was very little food. There was no water.

[00:39:48] There was no water. I'm at work. I'm 21 years of age and police unit shows up. There are three or four people and they take me from there. They bring me to the station and one of them, he was, I guess, the captain, he puts me in this room and he slaps me several times without even telling me what I've done wrong.

[00:40:14] And then he looks at me as I'm trying to ask him, what is this? And he says, for some piece of nobody like you, I have to be, you know, I received a phone call and I have to be admonished. And I said, but what did I do? You know what you're doing. No, I really don't. I was extremely a good student. I am at the university. I'm a scholar. I'm going to be somebody educated.

[00:40:44] I was working. What am I doing? And it's like, well, you know what you're doing. I have a relationship with my girlfriend at the time. She defected. She in 1987, my high school, high school sweetheart, my current wife, defected from Romania. Did her whole family defect? There were only two girls. It's not that easy to defect. The parents bribed so many people and all that.

[00:41:12] OK, so their story goes. They are. And you're in a totalitarian situation with a ruthless dictator. Absolutely. So that happens before they killed Nikolai Ceausescu. And you have to also understand in a totalitarian regime, it's not only the dictator Ceausescu. It's all around him. You know, he's got protection. He's got people that they have to demonstrate to him how much they are so important and they are so mean.

[00:41:42] And they it's unreal, unreal. But let me get back to the story of of they took me to the station and they beat me up because my girlfriend is in America and I had the audacity to talk to her. So that was my guilt. Then I go to university and that was my second year in university. And there are about 120 kids and we are in a big auditorium. Auditorium.

[00:42:12] I'm sorry. I'm losing my my words. And there is this guy that shows up. It's not my professor. It's somebody else. And he stands me up out of 120 kids and says. He is a traitor. They labeled me as a country traitor because I had a connection with a person that defected. We're kids. You understand? We're kids. I haven't done anything.

[00:42:41] But I was a traitor. And we were all the kids. They had to be member of the Communist Party in some shape or form since a very early age. It starts with being the pioneer and then the union of the youth, communist youth in Romania. Those are mandatory. It's not like it's my choice. It's what it is. So they they call me a traitor. And then I go to school.

[00:43:09] We have final exams. And I go into the math class and the teacher looks at me and she says, you're for Sina? I said, yes. Says, don't worry about I cannot pass you the class. So she gives me a grade, a failing grade that I've never had in my life. I didn't have a chance to do anything. So that was their way of telling me, you are not going to graduate. You're not going to become an engineer. OK, so just you might as well just forget about that.

[00:43:40] So when I tell you about these things, OK, that was me. That's what happened to me. And it had something to do with the fact that I was in the military and I was an athlete and I was a trained martial artist. And and the government wanted to recruit me. They wanted me when I finished my my military service to go into police, to go into the secret service, to go into some sort of a.

[00:44:09] So when I denied and I said, no, please let me finish my my higher education. I guess they looked at some situations and they found out because they were listening to conversations on the phone and all that. So at that point in time, they retaliated against my mom. They threatened her. She worked for them for 30 something years and then they threatened her. Your son is crazy. You're going to lose your job. We're never going to retire for this.

[00:44:38] And so my mom came home crying and they told me that they got to her. Then my brother called calls me and he says they got to me, too. And he was older than you. He was nine years. He is nine years older than me. And that's the brother that worked on the power plant over the Danube by partnership with Yugoslavia at the time. Iron Gates, it's called. It's a big electrical power plant over the Danube.

[00:45:08] So it is affecting you because you're young and you have your your goals and you have your dreams. And and, you know, you haven't really done anything wrong up to that point. What did I do? I just I had a girlfriend and it happened that she defected and now she's in America. I'm here. I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. I'm not talking bad about the government. You do that. You disappear.

[00:45:36] So I didn't even mention that to you, but you can't be talking bad against the dictator, the family or anybody in the, you know, ministry, regardless of the department. But all of them were in cahoots. All of them were were, you know, privileged people. They had access to everything. They had everything they needed.

[00:46:02] The rest of the world had less and less and less and less because the society was failing, you know. So how did your wife get up? So my my wife's parents bribed a lot of people and they were able to get passports for both sisters. So she had a three year older sister and they were both violinist. And in Romania, very difficult to be a really good one.

[00:46:29] But they were top 10 violinist in the country. Usually they will have to go in and play at events for the Communist Party and all that. And several times the Department of Education allowed them to go at competitions in Europe and they did very well. They won the competitions. And when they returned back to Romania, they had to go on television and thank the Communist Party for providing the opportunity so forth.

[00:46:57] But a teacher, an American professor at Rice University, saw them at one of these competitions and he offered them a scholarship at Rice University. And my wife remembers the day, says, but, you know, Mr. Luca, it's just the government is not going to let us. What do you mean? It's it's it's a scholarship. You don't have to pay and all that. I'll take care of everything.

[00:47:20] So the girls applied when they returned from the competition and they applied and the government said no. And then they applied again and the government said no. So it was becoming clear that they will never be able to go in and use the opportunity to study in the United States. So then the parents bribed people and they got them a passport for a. Tourist visa.

[00:47:48] Very difficult, but I guess they were able to do it. If I was to tell you how much the bribe was, it's it's ridiculous. But anyway. The girls made it to New York from New York. They made it to Houston. They got into the Shepherd School of Music. They had interviews with Good Morning America to talk about what's happening to them and to ask for the Romanian community.

[00:48:16] For some help because they were given a certain amount of time to get their documents in order. Otherwise, Rice would have thrown them out and they will have to return back to Romania. They already applied for political asylum. So it was a difficult time for them. But that was 1987. And Ceausescu was still alive.

[00:48:37] So the I shall say that the Americans, the Department of State or who's dealing with the situations of emigration, they were going to grant them asylum with the condition that they could stay in school at Rice. So they didn't speak very good English and they were there.

[00:49:06] And now the professors were so unbelievable. They worked with them. They were extremely good with violin. But now you have to take history and music history and you have to talk and you have to. English. English. So it was complicated. But guess what? They're musicians. They listen to the sounds and they memorize them so much better than the rest of the world. Generally speaking, we Romanians will have a heavy accent. People will ask me all the time where I was born.

[00:49:35] Never ever would they ask my wife because she picked up the sounds and she speaks very, very, very well. And both sisters studied at Rice University. And it took me three years to come here. But in about two years later, they used the Department of State and they applied for their parents to come because mom was a teacher. Dad was an engineer.

[00:50:05] He's losing his job. She won't be able to teach in schools anymore because the government retaliates. Oh, your daughters, you promised us that they're going to come back. So the dad goes, well, they're too young. They're silly. Let me go and bring them back. And he bribed a little bit more people. And they said, OK, go bring them back. So he goes and he defects. He stays here. And now there are three of them. So now the dad can take care of them.

[00:50:34] And mom is the last one. And they take mom and they take her to jail and they scary her and they abuse her. To the point where eventually she's making it here. And now she's got cancer. She's got lymphoma. Very few time left to leave. But she did get to see her daughters living in a free society with a career ahead of them.

[00:50:59] And then about, you know, three years after my daughter defected, I mean, my wife defected, I was able to come here. It wasn't easy. It's a difficult story. But I'm finally here. We get married. And then I apply for a social security card right away. And they gave it to me at the time. Now the laws have changed. So I was immediately able to get to work.

[00:51:27] And then I got to school. I had to pay for school as a foreign student, which was quite expensive. I went to University of St. Thomas and I studied there, studied computers. Unfortunately, the program at the time there demanded a lot of theology and philosophy.

[00:51:49] I tried and I begged them and I said, you know, I'm coming from a communist country where religion is not really something the government wanted you to do. I don't need a church to have my beliefs. I don't need a place to say thank you, Jesus, or whatever. I raise my kids the right way. But being in a church in Romania with everybody watching for you because the government did not like people to go to church.

[00:52:17] Government was always afraid of big gatherings. And the church could gather a lot of people, right? Well, then the government went to the priests there and wanted to make sure they were informers. So you go to, you know, talk to them and then they report you and so forth. So I'm not very fond of the institution, the church institution in Romania. I'm just not feeling comfortable there, okay?

[00:52:44] And because of that, I wasn't feeling comfortable here to begin with. I'm a Catholic. I was raised by my grandparents to be a very good person. And I've been an altar boy 10, 12 years of age. So I have my beliefs. I'm a very decent human being. I love humans and animals.

[00:53:08] But because of the communist government, I will always have a problem being in a church. It's just the way it is. It's just the way it is. But anyway, I come here. We get married. I get the job. I'm in school. And they make me take theology. And Dr. Licione is so nice, Italian guy. And he loves that I'm Romanian and we speak. And, you know, it was very fun.

[00:53:38] But I couldn't do it for another two, three years every semester. It's just for me writing a thesis in theology. And I'm a computer guy. I said, throw at me whatever numbers you want, whatever science you want. But not that. So I did take philosophy and theology a little bit. But then I moved to University of Houston. So that was different. I mean, I could learn about the American government. And I've studied besides the computer science.

[00:54:06] I got myself into accounting and economics. I was so avid to learn about the free society. Of course, I was younger. Now I'm silly. You know, I look at all this stuff and I say. But, no, I enjoyed going to school here a lot. I really wanted it. I was reborn at the age of 23. It started with language. I had to learn a language again. And then I went to school.

[00:54:35] I learned about the society. I learned about everything. And, yeah, I have a different drive than other people. So you swim. When you were just talking about the church and people, the priests being bribed to basically inform on you, was that prevalent throughout the society? Were people spying on one another? Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:55:01] Now, think about today with all the devices and technology we have. And now roll back to 1980. The dictator had the ability to listen and monitor 80% of the Romanian population. You can only have one phone company. So the phone had a microphone and they could listen to you. So if you talk something at home, they will know. You go to a restaurant and in a vase there is a microphone.

[00:55:30] Every table had a system that they could monitor it. Would they monitor Oviedo Frasina, for example, every day? Not really. But if somebody says, Ovidio Frusina wants to kill the dictator. It happened to my wife's father. Where somebody reported him that he wanted to do something like that. They arrested him. They beat him up.

[00:55:58] God, I mean, it's, it's, it's, I don't even know how his mind functions today after what he's been through. Okay. So I live in the apartment complex that had five entries. In each entry, you would go in and we had seven floors and each floor had four apartments. One of these apartments had an informer. Somebody will knock on the door and I bring him inside my house.

[00:56:27] Somebody is looking to see who that person is. And if he finds something suspicious, he will report it to somebody. That was the most miserable thing that the society has done. Destroyed people's beliefs, people's confidence. They didn't know who to talk to because of that. And we, I mentioned it in the beginning of our discussion that it will take generations to forget about that. Yeah.

[00:56:54] You know, I, you know, I, I would say, do I respect the church? Yes, I do. Do I respect, for example, the Catholic or, I mean, whatever religion, I respect it. Okay. I am just not comfortable because of what happened. Because of the way we, we, we grew up. Would this Romanian church I have in, in Houston to be trusted? It's very difficult for me. Yeah. Because I just don't know.

[00:57:24] I really don't know. But I will go every once in a while. And of course, we have our traditions. And, you know, when somebody dies, you have to get a priest to do certain services for you and all that. We do it. But I'm just not comfortable. Now, there are some other Romanians more comfortable than me. More power to them. You know, we all had our own experiences. We all had our own sufferings.

[00:57:49] A lot of Romanian people that you see here that made it in this country before 1990. Those are unbelievable people. They risked everything they had. Okay. Now, there is a lottery. There is, you know, some other options. And you might find some people here that came a little easier without risking as much. Okay.

[00:58:17] Generally speaking, Romanians will work hard. And the reason I say that, you leave your place of birth. Maybe I shouldn't speak for everybody. I'll speak for myself. I was here for seven years. And then I went back and visit my family in Romania. I shed a tear.

[00:58:47] When I stepped on that land, I grew up there. I lived 21 years. Lots of memories that I built there. And, you know, I have an affinity for that particular land. But after 10 years, I came home here. This is my home. Right. I have American children. This is my home. This is my family. I will always have an affinity to that place. But no more.

[00:59:15] I don't feel no more like that's my home. So I'm here and I'm again. Did you leave before? When you left Romania, was it still a dictatorship or had it been easing? So it was a little bit different than when the Soviet Union fell, right? Well, yes and no.

[00:59:41] Romania, Romania was able to, how should I say, get out of that mess in 1989. There was a very brutal coup, I shall say. Yeah. Probably supported by, I mean, I don't know if it's my place to say those things politically, but there was a lot of support from the Russian Federation.

[01:00:10] I remember it being in Romania and at the last party congress, Romanian dictator Ceausescu wanted to claim back the territories that were taken by the Russians in 1945. So he made the public speech in the front of the world, the country. And I don't know if anybody else could see it, that he demanded the return of those territories. And I believe that was his sign.

[01:00:40] That was what his death sentence, you know, contributed to his death sentence. So the movement started in a smaller city, a beautiful city in Romania. It's called Timisoara. So it started in a church, believe it or not. And then from there, the students in Timisoara started to spread in the country.

[01:01:05] And they went to Bucharest and they started to instill this movement against the government amongst the students. And then we all united and we started to, it was like yesterday, I remember the Communist Party forced everybody to come out in a public place.

[01:01:30] And Ceausescu was on television saying that there is a movement detrimental to the country and to the party and to the freedom of the people. And that's when actually it happened. And he tried to escape people instead of cheering for him because they're forced to cheer every single time. And what you see on television when they just like, people are happy.

[01:02:00] Oh, yeah. That's not how it was. But this time people started to scream against him and he didn't know what to do. And I was there. I remember it again like it was yesterday. So he tried to escape in a helicopter and the army has basically turned against him and they captured him.

[01:02:21] And I mean, I don't want to talk about the details here, but Ceausescu was sentenced to death Christmas time, December 25th, 1989. So they killed him. So the first thing that people felt like, oh, my gosh, we're free, we're free. Ceausescu is dead, right? Well, guess what? Where are all the people that work for Ceausescu? They're still there, right?

[01:02:48] But the first thing that we demanded was we want passports. So December 25th, I'm in line for three days, four days. And January 2nd, it's my turn and I get the passport. So now with the passport, an official Romanian passport, I go to the American embassy to try to get a visa to come to the States and see my girlfriend. And they denied it. Never, never happened in the past.

[01:03:18] And I suspect that the Romanian government told them we're going to give them passport. Everybody's going to defect. You don't want millions of people, you know, so they had to control the immigration somehow. So it was it was complicated for me. I made several attempts, but eventually I made it. So once I made it, the life was different. I was shocked for two, three months. It was almost impossible to describe. I was in fear of a lot of things.

[01:03:46] I just could not believe what I'm seeing. And I'll tell you something funny later about this. But what about food? When you saw grocery stores? That's what I was going to tell you about it. I didn't believe they're real. OK, so I went to a Kroger store and I asked the manager, would you allow me to record this? I would like to send it to my mom in Romania. And he was like, what do you mean to record all this? It's like he didn't believe what I was doing. I said, why don't you look at the tape? Because it was in a camera, VCR.

[01:04:16] I mean, a VHS camera. I said, look, it's about me, my family, my house. And the guy said, OK, go ahead. Because I wasn't filming the prices. Right. But when I showed mom how Kroger store looked, she said, it is not real. I sent the tape with somebody that went to Romania and gave her the tape and she saw it someplace. And they never believed it's real. Never believed it's real.

[01:04:46] So when you and I'm asking about it because you did talk about how how long it was to wait in line and it was rationing and bread. When you hear someone like Mayor Mondami in New York say he's going to provide grocery stores for people, what do you think? It's I can't even imagine what you might be thinking. Well, so first of all.

[01:05:14] For a government to be able to provide something for free, they have to take it from someplace. So for the mayor Mondami to. Create his grocery stores where he thinks he's going to have the buying power to buy the vegetables and the meats, whatever, and to sell them at a better price than than private owners. It's going to be a challenge. But he is part of the government.

[01:05:42] He's got no money for him to have money. He has to take them. So if people would understand whether I'm spending the money in a private grocery store or whether I am giving Mondami the money and then I can go and buy something that he gives me kind of a better price or for free. It's still my money. There is no free. It's nothing.

[01:06:06] So it will start like in Romania in 1965 where the stores had food in it and it was great. But later on, you were not able to find food anywhere. It was not enough. So what exactly is he trying to do to compete with the most efficient businesses? Food is very difficult business because they're perishable items. I buy something today. If I don't sell it in two days, I cannot sell it anymore.

[01:06:36] So how do I fix the price? How do I do it? So if he thinks that he's going to be able to do something and be successful and let's see how he's going to pay the people. Are everybody going to pay the same? I mean, it's like I don't understand exactly how he's going to do it. Allow me to learn a little bit. See what his plan is. And then I'll get back to you on this. But people do not understand. Government does not make money.

[01:07:04] I mean, no, they don't have money. The only way for the governments to have money is either printed, take it from people or borrowing from whatever. There is no other form. So when you ask something for free from the government, it's not free. The government has to take it.

[01:07:25] So, okay, are people understanding this basic fact that there is nothing free? It really is not. Okay. In Romania's Ceausescu, we didn't have taxes. The government taxed you to begin with. You got what you got from the government. This was your salary. Right.

[01:07:51] So now you go to, let's say, a grocery store. Is there any food? Is there no food? I told you in the beginning it was better. It deteriorated towards the 1985s and 87. But 25 years before that was okay. And I'll give you an example soon of something that it's interesting.

[01:08:13] But if you rely on the government to provide for you, and I tell you that government has never been as efficient as the private sector, and you're going to say, well, you're crazy. Well, show me. Take me and show me. I want to know. Where is the government more efficient than the private sector? Show it to me, and I'll be very happy.

[01:08:40] You look at the society we live in here. And it's very simple. To manufacture something, anything. You need some materials. You need some labor. And you want to make some profit. And you look at all these three factors, and it will give you a price. That is free market. The price will go up and down. Okay?

[01:09:06] In a socialist-controlled economy, the government sets the price. The materials will cost what they cost. The other two variables are the labor to produce it and the profit. But if you're not efficient and the price is fixed, you may get negative profit. It happens all the time in socialism. How is the government going to fix it?

[01:09:35] How can you become profitable? You raise the price because you cannot really improve the efficiency in that environment. You may think you can. They tried for 50 years and it's not happening. Okay? Why do you think in Romania a car costed $75,000? Because it's not efficient.

[01:09:58] And that's, you know, it's just, you know, it's $75,000 25 years ago. People in Romania had to work for eight years, put money on the side, and you go and buy a car. And you go to the government and they say, okay, you pay us now. And you come back in four years, the car will be ready. And in four years, this is the truth. This is the truth.

[01:10:26] You have to put the money down and then you wait for four years to get the vehicle. Now, Romania did not have its own manufacturing. But in 1950s, a French company, Renault, came to Romania and they built a factory together. Renault got 51% of the product. Romanians got 49%. And the name became Dacia. But the reality, it was a Renault 12, right? Well, the French company forgot about that.

[01:10:55] But Romanians keep producing it for 50 years. So you put your money down, wait for five, six years. You already paid them. And you go get the car. And you notice when you get the car that the left door doesn't close very well. And then you look underneath and you see drops of oil. And you tell the guy, hey, hey, I don't want to take this one. He says, okay, well, I'll call you back in four years. I'll give this to somebody else.

[01:11:24] So you take the car from the factory straight to your mechanic to fix the problems that were there. This was the quality. This was the efficiency of manufacturing in a socialist society. Okay? You cannot survive like this, but people did because they had no choice. They had no choice. Now you come to the United States and now you have entrepreneurship and you have, you know, dedication.

[01:11:51] And people want to do better and want to, you know, they do it for a profit. So in order to make a profit, you have to build a good product that everybody wants. And based on that, now you may, you know, do well for yourself, right? Think about it. Ten years, I swear, 10, 15 years ago in America, we can look at somebody that's good, rich, wealthy person. And we can say, I envy him. Very good.

[01:12:21] He can prove to me that I can do it. And we looked up to a person that was accomplished that much. Not today. Today there are enemies. Today they are viewed totally different. Oh, they make too much money. But you can do the same. Why don't you do it? Jeff Bezos started in a small little bitty place selling books. And in the last time, the whole world is using his system.

[01:12:51] Yeah. We can now get in a fraction of a second almost anything we want, anything we need. He did it. Yeah. 300 million people could do it too. But you cannot do this in a socialist society. You cannot do that at all. And that's what these kids want. We want free stuff. There is no free stuff. No. Somebody has to work for it. How do you think it's free?

[01:13:24] What is one thing you think that Americans should be on guard about right now as you look around the country or that we need to protect? Well, it's the ideology. This is the worst enemy right now that we are confronting. It's the ideology of socialism and communism.

[01:13:51] And I would say to you, if we want our children and generations to come to have the same chances for a life full of success, full of dignity, moral compass, we need to tell these children to stop looking at these ideologies and think for themselves.

[01:14:17] And I can tell you how much I appreciate the opportunity to answer questions. And I'll tell them my story, my life story. You know, it's not that easy to decide one day I'm going to wake up and I'm going to leave all my family and all my friends. And, you know, we all had reasons to do what we did. And we came to America because it's the land of opportunity. They want to kill that in some shape or form.

[01:14:43] They either don't know it and they will be forgiven if they don't know it. But if they know it and they're still doing it, that's a problem. So the ideology for me is a biggest concern right now.

[01:14:59] Looking back, if you could go back to the teenager that you were and you knew, maybe even that one in the college class where you were pulled out and told, we're giving you an F. You're not going to be able to do this. What would you tell that person because of everything you've seen in between then and now? So at the time, I couldn't say anything.

[01:15:29] But I can assure you that if I had the opportunity to talk to these professors, these teachers and people that contributed to that, how should I say, damage of the society, I would probably, I would probably realize or I can make them realize how guilty they were.

[01:16:00] Not sure if I could have changed anything at the time. Right now, I have at least a hope that I can change something. Yeah. By telling you how it was for millions of people and taking considerations, things that you don't know. At the time in Romania, I don't even know how to answer this to you. How could I?

[01:16:28] How could I have made a change there? And I don't think I could. Well, and not so much how you can make a change there, but what would you tell that young man, that 21-year-old or 19-year-old that was you? Okay. Because now you know how the story ends or that you finally get to America. I see. And that you have a home and that you've been to an amazing grocery store and that you were able to bribe people to get your mom the care that she needed.

[01:16:57] What would you want that 19-year-old to know? And what would you tell a 19- or 20-year-old in America today? Oh, well, to talk about myself, 19-year-old. I would have probably wished to spend more time with my dad who passed when I was 21 and I was not able to get what I needed from him.

[01:17:25] I would probably tell him to trust me that I'm going to make a better life for my family. He already agreed that whatever was there was not good. But specific for me, I would probably tell him, study hard. I would probably tell him, you know, take some risks.

[01:17:53] This is something that most of the people from those countries don't know how to do. I would be a great entrepreneur if I was to start all over again. So I would tell that kid, don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to go and dream high and do the things that you really had in mind. I think I was composed, too composed. I was a very good kid.

[01:18:21] I didn't want to bother anybody. I didn't want to... I wanted to stay with the mainstream and I've done, you know, good things. But I think that in a society that allows you to succeed, I think if you dream high, you would be able to accomplish a lot. I didn't know how to dream high at the time. Don't get me wrong. Like I said, I am extremely grateful for everything that happened to me.

[01:18:51] But if Jeff Bezos could do what he could do, why couldn't I do it? Why couldn't you? Why couldn't the next one? Why couldn't all of you that go to school and study for a degree that doesn't have a future, why do you do that? Be smart. Go and study and use your knowledge. How many kids we have today that get a degree that is worthless? There's so many.

[01:19:19] You know, so I would teach a 19-year-old, number one, please learn to think for yourself. Do not trust what you read. Do not trust what you see. Just study. Go and research. Go and make sure that you get as much information as possible. In mathematics, if you want to resolve a problem, you have to know all the unknowns.

[01:19:48] If you don't take in consideration all of them, the result is going to be skewed. Same here. How can you make a decision by just looking at a television channel or a radio host or somebody on the street that says something? Why would you make a decision and solve something in your mind just because of that? I would tell all these 19, 20-year-olds to dream big.

[01:20:16] I would love for them to study and reach out for the stars. And they will have to take care of this country pretty soon. They will be the ones. They will be the ones to walk on the moon. They will be the ones to probably travel to Mars. I suspect in 100 years from now, they will probably get the phone. Hey, you want to see a movie? Yeah. Where do you want to go? Let's go on Pluto. OK. Maybe that's how it's going to be. Maybe not. Certainly if Elon Musk has his way.

[01:20:46] Well, yes. But we also have to be careful because lots of people would like to damage this planet. Lots of people, if you give them the power, you know, they will damage. Because the people, some are good, nature good, but some are not that good. And, you know, how do you prevent that from happening? I saw a question on the Internet today.

[01:21:12] Would you still have voted for President Trump if you knew he will go to war with Iran? And it makes me smile. What kind of a question is that? Would I prefer for Dallas or Houston or Los Angeles to disappear from the face of the earth? Right. And then what? Did we think that we're going to lose 3,000 people in September 11? No. We lost them.

[01:21:41] How much value? What we could have done to prevent that from happening? We're doing it right now. Now, you and me and so many others, we don't have all the information. We don't know. We judge from the outside. Oh, why is he doing this? Why is it? Because they know way much more than we do. So they make their decisions based on real knowledge, real information.

[01:22:08] But we people make the decisions by looking at channel X, channel Y, channel Z. That is not even journalism. I mean, it's just sometimes it's just there's news interpreted by or filtered by certain people, which is OK if you take it for that. But please, please, 19 year olds, 20 year olds, think for yourself.

[01:22:38] Get information. Analyze all that information for yourself. And if you come out to the same results, so be it. But do that. That's what I would say. Ovido, did I get it right? Ovido. Perfect. Frustina, thank you so much for joining me today. Well, thank you so much for having me. That was Oviedo Frasina. Another Romanian is in this series and sees it from the other end.

[01:23:06] Manuela Collini was not quite four years old when Ceausescu was executed on Christmas Day in 1989. She barely remembers the regime. What she can tell you is what communism leaves behind even after it is over. And her answer to that doesn't is that it doesn't actually end when the government does. Be sure to check that one out.

[01:23:28] Now, before we close, we hope you'll share all or part of this surviving communism episode with your family and friends so they understand the unintended real life consequences of socialism and communism. And be sure to vote for liberty and our constitutional system and against communism this November. To help us get out the vote, go to IWillSaveAmerica.com.

[01:23:53] And be sure to check out the episode with Oren Wang, who survived the Chinese student uprising in 1989. We often hear about Tiananmen Square. He tells us how students further in China rose up against communism at the same time. If this was worth your time, hit like and subscribe. It's how we'll make sure these conversations reach more people. I'm Jenny Beth Martin, and this is Surviving Communism with The Jenny Beth Show.

[01:24:21] If you enjoyed today's conversation, go ahead and hit like and subscribe. It really helps us reach more people who care about liberty and the Constitution. You can find this and other episodes at JennyBethShow.com, as well as Facebook, YouTube, Rumble, Instagram, X, and your favorite podcast platform. The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin. The Jenny Beth Show is a production of Tea Party Patriots Action.

[01:24:47] For more information, visit TeaPartyPatriots.org.