Behind The Reagan Revolution | Hon. Edwin Meese III, Former Attorney General of the United States

[00:00:00] Ronald Reagan was asked back in the 1970s how he could deal with the seriousness of the Soviet Union

[00:00:08] as it seemed to be making inroads into country after country around the world.

[00:00:15] And he said, it's simple. We win, they lose.

[00:00:21] Keeping our republic is on the line and it requires patriots with great passion,

[00:00:26] dedication and eternal vigilance to preserve our freedoms.

[00:00:30] Jenny Beth Martin is the co-founder of Tea Party Patreons.

[00:00:34] She is an author, a filmmaker and one of Time magazine's most influential people in the world.

[00:00:40] But the title she is most proud of is Mom to her Boy Girl Twins.

[00:00:44] She has been at the forefront fighting to protect America's core principles for more than a decade.

[00:00:51] Welcome to the Jenny Beth Show.

[00:00:53] Imagine having a front row seat to the pivotal moments in the Ronald Reagan era of American politics.

[00:01:00] Today's guest, former Attorney General Edwin Meese III doesn't have to imagine it because he lived it.

[00:01:06] Ed Meese was a trusted confidant to President Ronald Reagan playing a pivotal role in shaping the policies that defined the Ronald Reagan era.

[00:01:14] His influence extended from the governor's office in California all the way to the halls of the White House.

[00:01:20] As Attorney General, he led a robust fight against drug trafficking and addiction, reducing drug abuse in the United States by over 50%.

[00:01:29] In this episode, Ed shares his incredible journey from debating and public speaking in college to becoming the Attorney General of the United States.

[00:01:38] He recounts his first meeting with Ronald Reagan, his role in developing the Strategic Defense Initiative

[00:01:43] and his pivotal part in the Reagan administration's efforts to bring down the Soviet Union.

[00:01:48] Beyond his career in public service, Ed has continued to shape American conservative thought as an elder statesman in the conservative movement,

[00:01:58] working with the Heritage Foundation to promote policies rooted in individual freedom, free markets and limited government.

[00:02:05] Stay tuned as we dive into this remarkable legacy of Ed Meese, a man who has not only witnessed history,

[00:02:12] but also shaped some of the most significant moments in modern American history.

[00:02:16] Ed, thank you so much for giving me this time to talk with you today. I really appreciate it and I'm just so glad we're able to do this.

[00:02:24] Thanks for being here.

[00:02:25] Very happy to talk with you.

[00:02:28] So you were the Attorney General of the United States and an attorney.

[00:02:33] How did you decide to be an attorney when you were a young man?

[00:02:38] And did you ever imagine when you made that decision that you would one day become Attorney General?

[00:02:45] I decided to go to law school. I had done in college, I had done a lot of debating and public speaking.

[00:02:57] And so I thought that also studying public policy, so I thought that the law school education would be very helpful no matter what I did.

[00:03:10] I was thinking particularly of going into work like city management, that sort of thing.

[00:03:17] And law school seemed like a very good follow on from my studies as undergraduate at work.

[00:03:27] And you were a very close advisor to Ronald Reagan. When did you first meet him and how did you become such a close advisor to him?

[00:03:35] It was funny how I met Ronald Reagan. I was in the District Attorney's office in Alameda County and my boss, the District Attorney,

[00:03:47] was the chairman of what they called the Law and Legislative Committee of the Peace Officers and the District Attorney's Association.

[00:03:58] So in essence he represented all the law enforcement agencies, chiefs of police, sheriffs and district attorneys.

[00:04:10] And one of the jobs that he had was to represent these organizations or these different groups before the state legislature.

[00:04:25] And so it was traditional that each year when the state legislature in California met, one of his deputies would go before the state legislature representing him and these other organizations.

[00:04:42] So it just happened that in 1961 it became my turn to root to do that.

[00:04:49] And so I spent the whole session of the legislature, which was six months, discussing legislation with various members of the state legislature.

[00:05:04] And so that was in 1961. In 1966 when Ronald Reagan won the election and became the governor of California, he was assembling his staff because he was starting, obviously, from scratch.

[00:05:26] Because he had never been in government before.

[00:05:31] And so one of the things that he was doing was going around the state, literally, asking people to serve on his staff.

[00:05:45] And I was invited to come up to Sacramento and to meet the new governor.

[00:05:57] And so I did that.

[00:05:59] And when I met him we had a conversation for about a half hour.

[00:06:04] And I was so impressed with him that when he surprised me at the end of that half hour talk with each other, he surprised me by offering me a job as his legal affairs secretary.

[00:06:23] And I surprised myself by accepting.

[00:06:27] And I remember then driving home 75 miles to tell my wife that we would be moving.

[00:06:37] So you said that you were so impressed with him, what impressed you in that meeting?

[00:06:41] Well, his friendliness and also the fact that he knew quite a bit about criminal justice, which was something I knew a lot about because I had been a deputy district attorney that time for several years.

[00:06:57] And so it just happened that I seemed to be the right person that I'd like to work for.

[00:07:06] That's great. And then what did you do in that first position with him?

[00:07:09] I was his legal affairs secretary for about a year.

[00:07:15] And then actually about two years.

[00:07:20] And then when the chief of staff left office to become a judge, he asked me to take over as executive assistant and chief of staff.

[00:07:36] And so you had a lot of responsibility for him as governor during that time?

[00:07:41] Well, that's right. I was, did that for about six years through the rest of his term.

[00:07:48] During that time there were a lot of anti-war protests going on against the Vietnam War on college campuses, right?

[00:07:56] That's right.

[00:07:57] What happened with that? How did you and president or at the time I guess it was Governor Reagan handle that?

[00:08:04] Ronald Reagan understood the right of the protesters to present their arguments, but he also felt that they should not do that in a way that literally closed down the colleges

[00:08:21] and interfered with the kids who wanted to get their education and the teachers, the instructors that wanted to teach.

[00:08:29] And so he took action to open the colleges, but at the same time allowed lawful protest without interfering with what was going on on the campuses.

[00:08:49] And there are similarities, aren't there, right now with those kind of protests and what we're seeing with the anti-Israel protests today on campuses?

[00:09:00] And a lot of those are actually shutting down campus. They've canceled graduations for some of the students.

[00:09:06] It isn't what you're describing that Reagan did during that time.

[00:09:12] Well, that's right. Too often today the officials at the colleges have almost been intimidated by the student, those who've gone beyond protests

[00:09:28] and were actually engaging in rioting and other action that essentially kept the colleges from doing their job of educating.

[00:09:41] And young people could not get to their classes and faculty members could not teach.

[00:09:51] And so in essence it was a riotous situation in many campuses.

[00:09:58] And that is not how it's supposed to be, and Reagan made sure that is not what was happening back during the Vietnam protests.

[00:10:07] Yes. So Ronald Reagan felt that the business of education should continue and not be thwarted by the students who had literally turned this situation into a riot

[00:10:22] and were vandalizing buildings, trying to start fires and that sort of thing.

[00:10:32] And so he took action to make sure that the campuses got back to their business of teaching

[00:10:43] and in one campus even to the point of having to mobilize the National Guard to stop the damage that was being done not only through the buildings on the campus

[00:10:59] but also to several of the stores and breaking the windows and breaking the glass in the front of the buildings, of the stores.

[00:11:10] That sort of thing for those buildings just outside of the campus.

[00:11:19] And I think that it's really important what you're just saying.

[00:11:23] There is free speech and the right to speech and the right to protest your government.

[00:11:28] And then there is crossing a line and destroying property, and we don't have the right to do that.

[00:11:34] And students, whether it was back in the Vietnam protests or people who are protesting against Israel and for Hamas terrorists right now,

[00:11:44] you can express yourself but you're not allowed to destroy property and shut down the business of education.

[00:11:51] Well that's right. And not only was that, it was not only destroying property but also beating up on students and that sort of thing

[00:12:00] to try to keep them from going into class and getting back to the business of learning.

[00:12:06] And I think that it's important for people listening and watching this podcast and seeing the news of the day right now

[00:12:14] to remember that even though some of what we're seeing right now, like with a protest about Israel,

[00:12:22] it's not new in the history of America.

[00:12:24] It's a different theme and a different topic that they're protesting about,

[00:12:28] but the same kind of things happen throughout the history of our country

[00:12:33] and we need leaders who can focus on what is a right versus what is moving over beyond a right to criminal activity

[00:12:43] and being a leader and taking a stand to distinguish between those.

[00:12:46] That's right. The Ronald Reagan felt rightly so that there's a big difference between lawful protests

[00:12:55] and property damage and actually hurting people to keep them, those people who wanted to go to college

[00:13:05] get an education and were not interested in protesting.

[00:13:11] Then let's shift from that. So you worked for Reagan for two years and then six years

[00:13:19] and six years as the chief of staff and then he ran for president, right?

[00:13:26] And he had a failed campaign and then he ran again in 1980.

[00:13:30] What were you doing during his first run for president and then what did you do during his second run for president

[00:13:35] during the campaign time?

[00:13:37] During his first run for president, I had at that time was involved in business.

[00:13:45] I was the vice president of an aerospace company and then I left that job to work on the campaign in 1976

[00:13:58] and went into law practice then at that time and was in law practice.

[00:14:06] And then when he ran again in 1980, I worked full-time on the campaign

[00:14:13] and served as chief of staff ultimately of the campaign for the last year

[00:14:21] before he ran and won in 1980.

[00:14:27] And I would imagine that when he ran and won, he was running against an establishment person really.

[00:14:36] He was running against George H. W. Bush and I'm sure that the establishment forces were probably against him

[00:14:44] very much like the kind of establishment forces were initially against and maybe are still against Trump running today.

[00:14:53] It seems to be a recurring theme we conservatives have to deal with.

[00:14:57] Yes, it seems very similar to 1980, very similar if you will, to 2016

[00:15:09] and the circumstances in terms of treatment by the establishment in the Republican Party

[00:15:18] and of course the Democrat Party as the opponent forces in the campaign.

[00:15:26] So he really, Ronald Reagan had really a very distinctive campaign in 1980

[00:15:34] and ultimately won in the campaign in the primary and then went on to win surprisingly by some.

[00:15:48] See when Razzie won the general election and took over

[00:15:53] and really made the Republican Party a much wider and better party

[00:16:03] in terms of bringing in a lot of people who had not been involved in politics before.

[00:16:12] And Trump is doing that as well?

[00:16:15] Yes, Trump had his own style, very different than Ronald Reagan.

[00:16:21] But it was his own and the circumstances as I mentioned were similar to the concerning the way in which the so-called establishment treated him very negative.

[00:16:37] So matter of fact there was a massive group originally in the primary campaign,

[00:16:46] people like Howard Baker and besides George Bush and Phil Crane.

[00:16:54] There were about five other candidates in that campaign initially

[00:17:00] and then of course Ronald Reagan won ultimately in the primary voting.

[00:17:07] And then he went on and became president and you moved from California to Washington DC?

[00:17:14] Yes, when he won the campaign then he asked me to be his counselor

[00:17:20] which is kind of the chief policy person and his staff.

[00:17:28] And then at that time we moved to Washington

[00:17:33] and then he asked me to be the attorney general when that opened up

[00:17:40] and I accepted and served for the second term as the attorney general of the United States.

[00:17:51] And then ultimately when the campaign was over, shortly before the campaign was over

[00:18:01] I also then was asked to take a position with the Heritage Foundation

[00:18:07] which is one of the leading public policy so-called think tanks in Washington DC

[00:18:15] and actually founded the Center for Legal and Judicial Policy.

[00:18:22] And what did that center do?

[00:18:24] That center was actually a research center on legal policy and judicial policy

[00:18:36] and other similar type of work working to support sound policies on law.

[00:18:53] Judiciary and similar matters.

[00:18:57] During your time working first as counselor and then as attorney general for President Reagan

[00:19:04] what are some of the things that happened during that time in your position

[00:19:08] that stand out as most memorable to you?

[00:19:12] During the time that I was attorney general and even before when I was counselor to the president

[00:19:18] the most important issue that we dealt with was drug trafficking and drug addiction.

[00:19:26] And that was the number of young people particularly who were getting involved in drugs

[00:19:33] to the detriment of their own lives in many cases.

[00:19:39] And so actually Ronald Reagan developed a strategy of dealing with drugs

[00:19:47] that was five points.

[00:19:51] One was of course strong law enforcement to stop the traffickers.

[00:19:57] Secondly international cooperation because a lot of the drugs were coming from outside the United States.

[00:20:07] A third was treatment and rehabilitation for those already using drugs.

[00:20:14] A fourth was the prevention and education to stop people from starting.

[00:20:22] And a fifth was expanding research on the drug problem and how it can be prevented.

[00:20:30] And as a result of that literally from 1982 when this strategy was started until 1992

[00:20:41] and continued on into his successor's time but during that time drug abuse in the United States

[00:20:50] was decreased by over 50%.

[00:20:54] And so I would say that was probably the most important thing we dealt with during that time.

[00:21:01] That's really amazing and I grew up during the 80s so I was a young girl

[00:21:06] and then a teenager during that time.

[00:21:09] And I remember just saying no and the advertisement with the frying pan

[00:21:13] and this is your brain and the egg, this is your brain on drugs.

[00:21:19] But it had a lasting that education effort had a lasting impact

[00:21:24] because here we are decades later and I can still rattle that off

[00:21:29] and anyone from my generation and older remembers those campaigns.

[00:21:33] That's right. Unfortunately after around the 1990s the effort on drugs was not continued

[00:21:43] and expanded as it was during the Reaganan and early Bush years.

[00:21:51] And so as a result we still have a drug problem today

[00:21:55] and only today actually it's even more serious because of the deadly drugs that are often involved

[00:22:05] and have taken the life of many young people at this time

[00:22:11] even more so than the deadly aspects of drugs that started out in the 1990s.

[00:22:20] Yes fentanyl is such a real problem today and such a tiny little amount can have devastating consequences.

[00:22:30] Yes fentanyl is of course a deadly drug that's often mixed with other drugs

[00:22:36] and as a result people don't know what they're doing to themselves until in many cases

[00:22:43] they've gotten seriously ill or ultimately actually die.

[00:22:51] It's in its heartbreaking I've met a couple of parents just in the last year

[00:22:55] who have lost a child, a child has died due to taking drugs and the drugs were laced with fentanyl

[00:23:04] and it's heartbreaking to know that this is happening.

[00:23:08] It is and many of the parents who've lost children through drugs

[00:23:15] and through the fentanyl have really testified to the dangers of this particular drug

[00:23:24] and the particular drug situation today which is equally serious to what we dealt with back in the 1980s.

[00:23:34] How important was the strategic defense initiative in bringing down the Soviet Empire

[00:23:39] and what did you see during your time about that?

[00:23:44] In the early days of his presidency he met with Dr. Edward Teller

[00:23:49] and was given the ideas and continued with some of the ideas he had had before

[00:23:58] that missile defense was really possible.

[00:24:03] Even utilizing weapons in space where a missile could counter an incoming missile

[00:24:13] and actually make nuclear weapons obsolete

[00:24:18] and this was something that he then proceeded to challenge the Joint Chiefs of Staff

[00:24:26] to work on it as well as the people who were working on it from the private sector

[00:24:35] at the various universities and as a result he was able to announce in 1983

[00:24:44] that we would go ahead on what was called the Strategic Defense Initiative.

[00:24:52] Many, there were many, gain sayers who said it could never be done

[00:24:57] and yet here today, several decades later,

[00:25:04] we've just gone through a period where the Iran government launched literally

[00:25:11] dozens if not hundreds of missiles at the country of Israel

[00:25:19] and it was pretty well thwarted by the Iron Dome

[00:25:25] and other anti-missile weapon in Blackmanry

[00:25:31] which showed that what Ronald Reagan started in the 1980s was not only successful

[00:25:39] but it amazed everybody on how it saved many hundreds, literally hundreds or thousands of lives

[00:25:48] and proved the validity of the whole anti-missile defense theory that Ronald Reagan had begun.

[00:26:00] And when I was a kid I remember the news would, they seemed to make fun of Reagan

[00:26:06] for his Star Wars program and yet that very kind of program is why Israel still exists right now today

[00:26:14] after the attacks he just faced.

[00:26:16] That's true. Our continuation with developing weapons to counter nuclear weapons

[00:26:27] is continuing in this country.

[00:26:31] If it had been continued at the rate in which Ronald Reagan started it in the 1980s

[00:26:38] it would be, I think, so successful today that it really would make nuclear weapons obsolete.

[00:26:47] Unfortunately some presidents since that time have not had the confidence in it

[00:26:54] in this program that Ronald Reagan did and so it's important that we go back as a part of

[00:27:02] a new leadership in our country to the continued development of the highest possible way

[00:27:10] to develop, to expand the concept of nuclear defense.

[00:27:19] Reagan is often thought of as one of the best presidents in our history

[00:27:25] and we put him on a pedestal with George Washington and Abraham Lincoln

[00:27:29] but you knew the man, not just the mythical figure that I know because I never met him.

[00:27:39] What are the things that impressed you the most about him

[00:27:43] and as you were working in his administration could you see his legacy playing out?

[00:27:52] Well the one thing of course that I saw right from the very first time I met him

[00:27:58] was his friendliness and then as I worked for him over that period of time

[00:28:05] from the 1966 on I worked for him in one way or another

[00:28:11] even after I left the government at the end of his term when he left the governorship

[00:28:19] I was on his advisory committee that worked with him on a number of things

[00:28:25] and then of course I'm currently co-chairman of the Board of Governors

[00:28:33] of the Reagan Ranch which was taken over by Young America's Foundation

[00:28:38] when it looked like it might be sold off to entrepreneurs

[00:28:45] who would essentially destroy the ranch as the way Ronald Reagan had kept it

[00:28:52] and then it is now a great picture of the simple life in the ranch

[00:29:04] the outdoors life that Ronald Reagan prized so highly.

[00:29:10] I spoke there after the targeting of the IRS targeting of Tea Party groups

[00:29:17] of groups with Tea Party and Petriots in their name they invited me to go speak there

[00:29:23] and Jordan Seculo, Jay Seculo's son and I were on a panel discussion

[00:29:29] and I remember just sitting there and talking about the topic at hand

[00:29:34] because I was asked to be a guest speaker but thinking that it was just so amazing

[00:29:39] to be on the property of his ranch and to see his home

[00:29:42] and to see this beautiful, beautiful property.

[00:29:46] The ranch really portrays Ronald Reagan as he was

[00:29:50] he enjoyed the simple life of being a rancher and he spent much of the time

[00:29:58] doing work around the ranch and so on after he left the presidency

[00:30:05] and really up until the time that he passed away in 2005.

[00:30:10] His legacy is one of stopping the Cold War, of ending the Cold War

[00:30:16] and bringing down the Soviet Union and working to stop the spread of communism.

[00:30:23] My daughter and I, she's 21, she has a twin brother

[00:30:27] she and I have been watching a TV show set in the 80s recently

[00:30:31] and she is trying to understand what it was like during that time during the Cold War

[00:30:37] What would you say to young people today, your grandchildren

[00:30:41] or your great-grandchildren who have no concept of what that period of American history was like?

[00:30:49] Well I think you would have to explain the 80s were very much like the situation is today

[00:30:57] there was actually when Ronald Reagan became president

[00:31:03] we had just gone through a period of high inflation, a stagnant economy

[00:31:10] and the Soviet Union was threatening the United States in all the free nations

[00:31:20] so you had a bad situation in terms of foreign policy as well as domestic policy

[00:31:28] and Ronald Reagan actually also faced the fact that many people had given up at that time on America

[00:31:40] and were thinking that perhaps our country was not able to provide the opportunities

[00:31:47] and to have the kind of a growth and a way in which Americans could do everything

[00:32:00] and successfully and be successful if they worked hard

[00:32:05] so Ronald Reagan really had three major things that he had to deal with

[00:32:11] the Soviet Union threat as foreign policy

[00:32:16] secondly the work at home in economics to do something about inflation

[00:32:23] and the bad economic situation

[00:32:26] and then the third thing was to renew the spirit of the American people when he left office

[00:32:33] all of those things had been accomplished

[00:32:36] the situation had been set in motion

[00:32:40] which ultimately led to the implosion of the Soviet Union in the end of the Cold War

[00:32:49] we had a new period of economic growth and lower inflation

[00:32:56] and he had restored the feeling of America that America was a land of opportunity

[00:33:04] young people should see what was happening at what happened in those days

[00:33:09] and which Ronald Reagan's meeting the challenges in the 1980s are similar to the challenges that we have today

[00:33:18] and all we need really is the proper leadership that we've had in some cases but not recently

[00:33:27] I think that's right as you were describing the challenges that he was facing

[00:33:32] a stagnant economy, hyperinflation

[00:33:35] we have a rather stagnant economy and we're dealing with inflation

[00:33:39] maybe not hyperinflation but certainly inflation

[00:33:41] it affects everyone when they go to buy groceries

[00:33:44] he was dealing with the rise of the Soviet Union and their power

[00:33:50] and the threat that their power might have on America

[00:33:53] and we have that coming from communist China today

[00:33:57] and then the spirit of the American people is very low right now

[00:34:02] and people think the country is in terrible shape

[00:34:05] and the same thing was going on back then

[00:34:08] and with the proper leadership we can get out of these problems

[00:34:13] that's what we need now and after periods of really total lack of leadership

[00:34:20] or leadership in the wrong direction which we're seeing at the present time

[00:34:27] when Reagan was president did he ever consult polls to figure out how he should talk to the American people

[00:34:33] he was such a great communicator

[00:34:35] yes he looked at polls to see how we were doing in the election for example

[00:34:46] but he saw that as an indication really of how the people felt

[00:34:58] but he did not use those for example to so much as often people in politics do

[00:35:08] and then set their course the way the polls indicate people are thinking

[00:35:15] Ronald Reagan had ideas about America that carried on the traditions

[00:35:22] that he lived by as a young person

[00:35:26] and really the basic principles that our leaders over the years

[00:35:32] were going all the way back to the 1770s

[00:35:37] the kind of leadership leaders of freedom

[00:35:41] and industry and the sense of hard work that sort of thing

[00:35:47] and so he restored those kind of concepts like strong national defense

[00:35:58] individual liberty

[00:36:00] the idea of free market economics

[00:36:05] and limited government

[00:36:08] those kinds of principles which he

[00:36:12] on which he built really his plan and his strategies

[00:36:18] and which was successful in as I mentioned foreign policy

[00:36:23] domestic particularly economic policy

[00:36:27] and preserving the freedom of the American people

[00:36:32] all those things which we need a reiteration of today

[00:36:37] and when how would you talk about it today to remind people why that's so important today

[00:36:44] well I think we would see that we could again build a country

[00:36:50] or preserve a country as we did in the 1980s there

[00:36:57] where we really had peace and prosperity

[00:37:02] which lasted in the 90s the 80s 90s and for quite a while

[00:37:09] but which in the last decade or so has with the exception of the Trump years

[00:37:17] we've had major deterioration both before and after the Trump years

[00:37:27] the Trump years was a respite and a growth period

[00:37:32] and a foreign policy that involved essentially peace through strength

[00:37:39] which unfortunately we have not had before and since

[00:37:45] of that policy and that's the job that remains to be done

[00:37:50] and one in which there's a great opportunity

[00:37:55] if we get back to those Reagan principles

[00:37:59] and what President Trump did during his time

[00:38:04] if we get back to those

[00:38:06] whether we do or not really depends on the next election

[00:38:11] That's right, the American people

[00:38:13] and you said personal freedom, individual freedom

[00:38:19] limited government and free markets

[00:38:23] How are those so important? Why are they so important?

[00:38:29] Well free markets and individual liberty

[00:38:33] means that people can work hard

[00:38:36] and be successful and our businesses

[00:38:40] and industries are successful

[00:38:43] and that we have people being able to improve their economic situation

[00:38:50] as they did in the 1980s in the 1990s

[00:38:55] and also we can do things like the reduction of crime

[00:39:00] crime went down from 1992 down to 20,015

[00:39:10] unfortunately during the latter part of that period

[00:39:14] in the years around 2000 and 2010

[00:39:20] a lot of people particularly in our universities

[00:39:24] were preaching an idea

[00:39:27] that we didn't need to put people in prison

[00:39:30] and as a result crime in about 2015

[00:39:36] crime started to go up again

[00:39:38] and has continued to go up since that time

[00:39:42] And that is harmful to everyone

[00:39:44] because when you have crime happening

[00:39:48] businesses are less likely to go in areas

[00:39:52] where there is high crime

[00:39:54] they may wind up closing businesses

[00:39:56] if there is high crime

[00:39:58] people are harmed physically

[00:39:59] and also with their property

[00:40:01] and it creates an uncertainty

[00:40:04] and I think it leads to that feeling

[00:40:07] that the American people have

[00:40:09] that they just begin to give up on America

[00:40:11] rather than to feel like there is something worth looking forward to

[00:40:16] Today when some of our political leaders

[00:40:19] are even at the point where they are

[00:40:24] degrading what they are saying about America

[00:40:26] and as a result many of our people

[00:40:30] have again become dispirited

[00:40:32] and worry about what is going on

[00:40:36] and we have the situation

[00:40:38] where for a period of time now

[00:40:41] we've had district attorneys around the country

[00:40:46] who have actually stopped

[00:40:49] really dealing with the crime problem

[00:40:52] and dealing with criminals

[00:40:54] they have been either not prosecuting criminals

[00:40:57] or other not sending serious criminals to prison

[00:41:05] so as a result we have carjacking

[00:41:09] we have mass robberies going into stores

[00:41:17] particularly stores where expensive items are sold

[00:41:21] and literally intimidating the owners

[00:41:24] I was snapping with a smash in the grabs

[00:41:30] and running out with all the stolen goods

[00:41:33] and getting away before the police

[00:41:36] and get there in a similar situation

[00:41:39] where crime is rampant again

[00:41:44] like where it was during the 1980s

[00:41:47] before the efforts were made to stop it

[00:41:50] it seems like right now what we are seeing

[00:41:53] is that people who are criminals

[00:41:55] and doing the kind of activity that you mentioned

[00:41:57] are being given a free get out of jail card

[00:42:02] and yet the same prosecutors

[00:42:05] many of them, some of them

[00:42:07] are using the position of power that they have

[00:42:11] in weaponizing that position of power

[00:42:14] against Trump and his allies

[00:42:16] and we are seeing that in Fulton County, Georgia

[00:42:19] where the Atlanta area where I am from

[00:42:22] in Washington DC, Florida, New York

[00:42:25] and then not just with Trump but his allies

[00:42:28] in Wisconsin, Nevada and Arizona as well

[00:42:33] Yes, today we have what you might call

[00:42:39] the politicalization of criminal activity

[00:42:46] and he certainly had the crime as a backdrop

[00:42:51] to ways in which the criminal law

[00:42:57] is being used as a political gambit

[00:43:01] to deal with some of the people

[00:43:05] who are running for office

[00:43:08] And what do you think of that weaponization

[00:43:11] of those positions?

[00:43:12] I think the idea that the criminal law

[00:43:15] should be used as a tool for one political party

[00:43:21] against another is a serious problem

[00:43:24] for politics that we haven't had before

[00:43:26] There's always been a respect for people

[00:43:32] running in the opposite party before

[00:43:35] and even though there would be discussion

[00:43:38] and arguments on issues

[00:43:42] in which they would be very seriously

[00:43:46] felt very seriously and that sort of thing

[00:43:50] which they argued them out

[00:43:52] and they didn't try to put their opponents in jail

[00:43:56] Yeah, and it's very alarming what we're seeing today

[00:44:02] It's very... it's a particular serious today

[00:44:05] and it poisons the politics, the political situation

[00:44:11] as well as makes it much harder for the people

[00:44:15] to understand and to be able to measure

[00:44:19] what they want in an election

[00:44:21] when the whole process has been politicized

[00:44:26] and poisoned really by the way in which

[00:44:31] the criminal law is being brought to use

[00:44:36] against some of the opponents

[00:44:40] Shifting gears for just a minute

[00:44:43] You went through from the time you first met Reagan

[00:44:47] He became governor or he was governor when you met him

[00:44:50] He became president and his legacy is one

[00:44:54] to take down the Soviet Union

[00:44:58] What did you think when the Berlin Wall came down?

[00:45:02] Where were you?

[00:45:03] I was at the Heritage Foundation

[00:45:06] and many of us who had worked with Ronald Reagan

[00:45:12] recognized the fact that freedom

[00:45:16] was now beginning to triumph over the tyranny

[00:45:21] that the Soviet Union had been engaged in

[00:45:25] And it seemed probably in 1976 and 1980

[00:45:31] like that would be an impossibility

[00:45:33] Right

[00:45:34] And I think that when people today look at the challenges

[00:45:38] that our country faces, whether it's a weaponization

[00:45:41] of the government against Trump and his allies

[00:45:46] the stagnant economy, the threat of China

[00:45:50] whatever these challenges that we're facing are

[00:45:54] that seem so insurmountable and as if we can never

[00:45:57] get past them, we've accomplished amazing things

[00:46:02] as a country in the past

[00:46:03] seemingly impossible things

[00:46:05] and it can be done again with the right leadership

[00:46:09] Ronald Reagan was asked back in the 1970s

[00:46:13] how he could change things

[00:46:17] and how he could deal with the seriousness

[00:46:20] of the Soviet Union

[00:46:22] as it seemed to be making in-murrows

[00:46:25] into country after country around the world

[00:46:27] and he said, it's simple

[00:46:31] we win, they lose

[00:46:35] Now, he was not just being boisterous

[00:46:38] or being similar

[00:46:42] he actually believed that freedom

[00:46:45] and the kinds of principles that he believed in

[00:46:50] and which he had used in California

[00:46:53] principles like individual liberty

[00:46:56] free market, economics and so on

[00:47:00] he really believed that these things could work

[00:47:03] very few people could

[00:47:05] and almost everyone felt that we were

[00:47:10] relegated to having to look with

[00:47:14] and then compete with the Soviet Union

[00:47:18] as a constant opponent for years to come

[00:47:22] and that there was no way of overcoming this

[00:47:24] Ronald Reagan, of course, felt differently

[00:47:28] and then rebuilt our military

[00:47:32] and encouraged the building

[00:47:34] of our military forces in other countries

[00:47:39] that were free countries

[00:47:41] and as a result

[00:47:44] all of the efforts that he made

[00:47:46] and the example he set for the world

[00:47:49] resulted in the end of the Soviet Union

[00:47:52] and a return of freedom

[00:47:55] to many of those countries in Europe

[00:47:58] which had been under the Soviet domination

[00:48:01] for so many years

[00:48:04] Do you have any closing words that you would give

[00:48:07] to people who are getting involved in politics today

[00:48:09] for the first time or for attorneys

[00:48:11] who are thinking of taking on the challenges

[00:48:15] that we face today?

[00:48:17] To people today

[00:48:19] particularly young people

[00:48:20] I think there is a great opportunity

[00:48:23] to follow the principles

[00:48:26] that Ronald Reagan has espoused

[00:48:28] both before he ran for the governorship

[00:48:33] and as he continued throughout the time

[00:48:36] and he was governor

[00:48:37] and which are the kinds of things

[00:48:41] that the Heritage Foundation, for example,

[00:48:45] stands for

[00:48:46] things like individual liberty

[00:48:48] free market economics

[00:48:50] and a strong national defense

[00:48:52] all of which were the things

[00:48:56] that Ronald Reagan believed in

[00:48:57] which he practiced as a leader

[00:49:01] both before he was governor

[00:49:06] as a governor

[00:49:07] and then later as president

[00:49:09] and so I think

[00:49:11] there is a much opportunity for hope

[00:49:14] but it has to do with working on

[00:49:19] bringing back the United States

[00:49:21] that Ronald Reagan worked for

[00:49:24] and remembering the principles he followed

[00:49:28] and I think if we would do that

[00:49:31] I think we would be in much better shape

[00:49:34] and in better shape not only for our country

[00:49:38] but really better shape for the free world

[00:49:42] and we thank you so much for joining me today

[00:49:45] I really appreciate this time we had together

[00:49:47] Thank you

[00:49:48] The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin

[00:49:52] produced by Kevin Mooneyhand

[00:49:54] and directed by Luke Livingston

[00:49:56] The Jenny Beth Show is a production of T-Party Patriots Action

[00:50:02] For more information visit T-PartyPatriots.org

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