Guests:
Sasha Gong is the former China director at Voice of America, a former political prisoner in China, and a Harvard PhD. She came to the United States in the late 1980s, cannot return to China, and has filmed the history of communism across Eastern Europe. On this panel she explains the Budapest photograph, describes informers inside the family, and reports on Chinese influence operations on American social media.
Dr. Yuri Yarim-Agaev is a Soviet physicist and member of the Moscow Helsinki Group, exiled from the Soviet Union in 1980. Before his exile he developed an economic model of the Soviet system and concluded that the real tax rate was over 92 percent, hidden in state-set wages, against a nominal rate of 13 percent. He explains why the system could not match Ronald Reagan's military buildup and why Gorbachev was chosen to save communism, not end it.
Agnes Gibboney was two years old when her family escaped Hungary after the Soviet invasion of October 1956, one of roughly 200,000 Hungarians who left. She visited the statue cemetery in Budapest last year.
Ovidiu Frusina was born in Bucharest under Nicolae Ceausescu and was a university student during the December 1989 revolution. He describes the uprising in Timisoara, the rally that turned to booing, Ceausescu's helicopter, and a Securitate that could monitor 80 percent of the population.
Manuela Colini grew up under Romanian communism. She explains the photograph of the Romanian flag with the communist emblem cut out, Ceausescu's trial, and his execution on Christmas Day 1989.
Captain Onofre Gutierrez was born in Managua, Nicaragua. He explains the exiled Catholic bishop in the photograph and how the Sandinista regime has become the Ortega family regime.
Janice Trey is chairman of the board of The Epoch Times, born in a forced labor camp during China's Cultural Revolution. She explains the Tank Man photograph, the cousins in China who still do not know what happened, and the Chinese Communist Party's reach into American media, courts, and schools.
Torsten Trey grew up in West Germany and joins the panel for the Berlin Wall: Conrad Schumann's leap over the barbed wire in August 1961, the 30-year experiment that left East Germany decades behind, and a Bundestag witness's account of how Beijing pays influencers.
Key topics:
• Tank Man, June 4, 1989: a friend on an ambulance crew that night, and cousins in China who still do not know it happened
• Read the People's Daily in reverse: the Party said unarmed students attacked the military
• Budapest 1956: the Stalin statue comes down, the statue cemetery, and the 200,000 who left Hungary
• Romania 1989: the flag with the emblem cut out, the rally that turned to booing, Ceausescu's helicopter, a trial of under an hour, and an execution on Christmas Day
• Communism is cognitive dissonance: it promises abundance and safety, and not even the man at the top was safe
• The Securitate could monitor 80 percent of the population, with informers in workplaces, schools, and families; Sasha Gong: my mother informed on me
• Pacepa took orders from Andropov: Moscow wanted a change of guards in Romania, not an end to communism
• Nicaragua now: an exiled Catholic bishop, and a Sandinista regime that has become the Ortega family regime
• The Soviet food line and the number: a nominal tax of 13 percent, a real rate of 92 percent hidden in wages set by the only employer
• A 1,000-ruble job paid 100 or 120; the trick was control over who gets the apartment, the food, and the doctor
• Why it fell: with 92 percent already taken, there was nothing left to match Reagan's buildup; communism carries its own time bomb; Gorbachev was chosen to save the system
• China today: Brezhnev-style stagnation under Xi Jinping; a Reagan-style peaceful offensive; Janice Trey says 466 million have withdrawn from the Party and its youth organizations
• Infiltration: America Against America, paid inserts in American newspapers, lawsuits funded by the Chinese Communist Party, and Confucius Institutes that teach songs praising communism
• Agents of influence now operate openly: the bank interview with a Party supervisor who said nothing happened at Tiananmen Square
• Sasha Gong: fake accounts, and subscriptions used as payment to influencers
• Jenny Beth Martin's rule for any anonymous account: who is behind it, where are its followers from, and who benefits outside America
• The Berlin Wall, August 1961: built to keep East Germans in; Conrad Schumann's leap; one leveled country, two systems, and nobody ran east
• The Bundestag testimony: $2,000 a month for a year to criticize China, then slowly change the narrative
• Fifty years of one party with no criticism becomes extreme; the free world's balance is the check
• Next in the series: the panel reads the Democratic Socialists of America program
Timestamps:
00:00 — Cold open: the famous photographs of communism, explained by the people who lived them
00:42 — The panel: survivors from China, the Soviet Union, Hungary, Romania, and Nicaragua
01:13 — The first photo: Tank Man, Tiananmen Square, June 4, 1989
01:22 — Janice Trey: the students wanted democracy; 1989 was the year the wall fell
02:28 — Two friends: an ambulance crew that night, and a nap that saved a life
03:36 — Her cousins in China have no idea; the People's Daily said the students attacked
04:11 — Sasha Gong: there is no number; massive arrests; a fifteen-year sentence
05:20 — The Beijing playbook offered to East Berlin: you have to crush those people
06:04 — Yuri Yarim-Agaev: Estonia, Budapest 1956, Andropov, and Putin's portrait
07:43 — Onofre Gutierrez watched from America; the host on Iran
08:30 — The next photo: the Stalin statue comes down in Budapest
08:39 — Sasha Gong: the hatred in their eyes; Stalin Alley became Karl Marx Avenue
10:16 — Agnes Gibboney: the statue cemetery, 1956, and the 200,000 who left Hungary
11:20 — The next photo: Romania, the flag with a hole in it
11:29 — Manuela Colini: December 1989, a trial of under an hour, Christmas Day
13:57 — Ovidiu Frusina: the missing emblem, Timisoara, and the rally that turned to booing
15:53 — Ceausescu's helicopter, a forced landing, and the arrest
18:23 — Pacepa's defection, and why Moscow was ready to assist
20:22 — The Securitate could monitor 80 percent of the population
21:03 — Sasha Gong: my mother informed on me; the flag with the symbol cut out
22:08 — Yarim-Agaev: Pacepa took orders from Andropov; a change of guards, not an end to communism
23:54 — Nicaragua now: an exiled Catholic bishop
24:44 — The Sandinista regime has become the Ortega family regime
25:55 — The Soviet food line: how did it end?
26:46 — Hidden taxation: the nominal rate was 13 percent
27:17 — A 1,000-ruble job paid 100 or 120 rubles; the conclusion is 92 percent
28:16 — The trick was control: who gets the apartment, the food, the doctor
29:46 — When Reagan came to power: no room left to take more
31:28 — Communism's time bomb
31:48 — Gorbachev tried to save communism
32:28 — China approaches the same stage: Brezhnev-style stagnation
33:17 — A peaceful offensive against Chinese communism
33:40 — Janice Trey: 466 million have withdrawn from the Party and its youth organizations
35:16 — A wolf in sheep's clothing: infiltration into the Western world
36:12 — America Against America: a 37-year playbook
36:46 — Paid inserts in American newspapers
37:16 — Lawfare: the Chinese Communist Party behind the lawsuits
38:02 — Confucius Institutes: songs praising communism, and the money to American institutions
39:58 — Yarim-Agaev: a global ideological war since 1917; the headquarters moved to Beijing
41:48 — The bank interview: nothing happened at Tiananmen Square
43:34 — Sasha Gong: I blame Americans more; Harvard, then Berkeley
44:44 — Fake accounts, and subscriptions as payment
46:19 — The host's rule for any anonymous account
48:19 — One more guest: Torsten Trey, who grew up in West Germany
48:57 — The Berlin Wall being built; why East Germany needed a wall
50:13 — August 1961: barbed wire overnight, and Conrad Schumann's leap
51:36 — A historic experiment: free market West, communist East
52:13 — Twenty or thirty years behind, because there was no incentive
53:09 — 1989: the experiment ended, and nobody ran east
54:40 — The propaganda ministry, and listening secretly to West German radio
55:16 — The Bundestag hearing: $2,000 a month to criticize China, then change the narrative
56:35 — The long game; fifty years of one party becomes extreme
58:15 — The close: take Yuri's number; next, the Democratic Socialists of America program
58:50 — Vote for liberty; iwillsaveamerica.com; share the series
59:00 — Outro
Links mentioned:
iwillsaveamerica.com
jennybethshow.com
teapartypatriots.org