Flock Cameras: A Child of Communist Romania Sees the Pattern Coming Back | Manuela Callini

[00:00:00] Her mother's family worked the same land in Romania since the 1200s. Then the communists came and took the equipment, the livestock, and the land. Her mother was one of nine children. Afterward, those nine shared a single pair of rubber boots taking turns using the boots to walk to school. Welcome to The Jenny Beth Show. I'm Jenny Beth Martin, and this is our Surviving Communism Series.

[00:00:38] Welcome to The Jenny Beth Show.

[00:00:41] I sat down with people from five countries who know what communism actually does. Today, we learn more about what happened to them in communist countries, to their families, their food, their churches, and their futures. Manuela Callini is the youngest person in this series. She was born in communist Romania and was not quite four when the regime fell. She remembers the faces of the adults that night and the euphoria and the hope that was on those faces.

[00:01:08] She will tell you about standing in line with her father and her sisters before dawn, reaching the front, and being told to go home because food ran out. And even if there was food, a ration card said how much they were allowed to buy.

[00:01:23] She came here to America in 2013. She knows that power never announces itself as oppression. It arrives wrapped in beautiful words, safety, fairness, equality, compassion. She grew up in the wreckage of a country that promised all four. Here's Manuela Callini. Manuela Callini, thank you so much for joining me. Well, thank you very much for having me.

[00:01:47] So you are from Romania. And I really want to let the audience know about what growing up was like for you. Sure. I was born in 1986. And I don't want to give up my age, but you kind of have to. I was born in communism, and I've experienced it until 1989 in December.

[00:02:11] I had no freedom. I remember waking up in the morning early and being taken with my dad and with my two sisters, going to the dairy shop, going to the butchers, and trying to get the essentials. I remember my parents having cards with ratios of how much you could buy. And there were these horrible lines with people that were being...

[00:02:39] It was... Sorry. It's a little hard because there were these huge lines and people's dignity was not being respected. They were waiting in these lines. And then oftentimes when they would get to the front of the line, the shop would close because they would say, we have no more. We ran out. Try again tomorrow.

[00:03:02] And if you stayed in line for, for example, just milk, because you did not have grocery stores like we have in America today, and you needed to buy meat or something else. So you had to go to different stores and get in line a few hours before the dawn. And it was just terrible. And there was no product diversity.

[00:03:26] So if you wanted to buy milk, there was just one producer, just one type of milk. There wasn't lactose-free. There wasn't A2 milk like we have today. So it was horrible when it came to that. Also regarding education, I remember all of us, me and my sisters and the other kids, we had to dress up certain ways.

[00:03:53] And we could not have anything different than the other kids. We all had the same kind of uniforms and we had names as well that our dictator gave us then. And I remember I was shoimulpatrie, which means kind of like the countries, like, and then like, not eagle, but a different kind of bird, predatory bird.

[00:04:15] And we were coached to have and behave in a very submissive way. And I remember just going first thing in the morning when we would go to daycare school, we had to put our hands on clean, white handkerchiefs. And we were inspected, kind of like you inspect merchandise.

[00:04:42] And then if, I mean, me and my sisters, we were always up to the code. But I don't know what happened to kids that were not up to the code. So we were, I want to say, almost like objects. And we were not able to have personality or to have opinions, ideas, even as kids. And play was restricted as well. So it was very, very difficult growing up.

[00:05:11] And I look at the kids nowadays when I see when they have all these beautiful birthday parties with balloons and collars. We did not have collars. In schools and daycares, we had pictures of Nikolai Ceausescu and his wife because it was all about this personality cult. It was all about him. It wasn't about the individual. It wasn't about the people. It was about the dictator.

[00:05:34] And I wish for my children and for our country, because now America is my country. I wish that we become aware of what socialism is and how it takes our freedoms. Yeah. You were very young. How old were you when communism ended?

[00:06:04] Were you in Romania? I was almost four. Okay. And that's another traumatic story and aspect even about the fall of communism. So everything about communism is traumatic. We had this dictator, Ceausescu, who was very well known. And I don't think he was very much aware of what was going on in the country because in his regime,

[00:06:29] he has hired and put people in place in positions of power that were very close to him. And I remember at one point, the media reported, of course, after the fall of communism, that he had about 27 family members that were in government leadership. And because of that, I don't think he was very much aware of what was going on in the country.

[00:06:52] I remember my father telling me that when Ceausescu was going and visiting other cities or factories, whatever it was, the streets would get painted overnight. And then there were orchards and trees that were by the road. They would put apples and fruit with string just to show Nikolai Ceausescu the abundance that we lived. But that didn't last long.

[00:07:19] I think in 1989, at the end of the year, Ceausescu started to feel that something was wrong, that the reality and then his perception of leadership were not adding up. And in December, on December 25th, so on Christmas Day, Nikolai Ceausescu found his end.

[00:07:43] And it was actually the own system that he created, that he became a victim of it, because on December 25th, he was captured together with his wife. They were brought up before a judge, a trial, which lasted less than 50 minutes. Imagine that. Wow. Less than 50 minutes. So this is the freedom and the democracy that he promoted and he wanted. But it turned against him.

[00:08:12] And then in less than 50 minutes, he couldn't actually defend himself. He had charges brought against him and he tried to invoke the Great Assembly of Romania that he had rights. But, well, people had rights too, but he didn't. He did not allow people actually to have rights. And he received a sentence, death sentence, together with his wife.

[00:08:36] And then less than 15 minutes after his trial ended, he was executed with automatic guns in the back of the building at a wall. So if anybody thinks that they're safe during communism or in communism, that does not exist. Even for the person with the most power. Exactly.

[00:09:00] Because there's always going to be another one who's going to come and create a coop or it's going to want to have the same kind of power. So there's never any safety, no matter how much power they have. What have you learned about it from your parents? Because they lived many years, decades under such a system. What was it like for them growing up?

[00:09:30] It was not good. And I will start with my mom because my parents have a little bit different stories. My mom came from a noble family that my mother's family is documented going all the way to the 1200s. My mom came from wealth.

[00:09:52] When she was a little girl, she had people that were working for her, for my great grandparents' estate and farm. And then we had something that we call in communism collectivization. And that means that government came one day and took everything that my mother's family owned.

[00:10:16] All the livestock, the farming equipment, even their clothes and their personal items. And my mom often told me this story with tears in her eyes and with bitterness, even though my mom was a lovely Christian woman. And that's something that it's really hard to get over, even in time. And I think it kind of got from my great grandfather to my grandfather and then to my mom. Because you just feel that injustice.

[00:10:45] You've worked your entire life. I mean, my great grandfather and then the generations before, they built wealth. They built something that they could leave to the future generations. It was the heritage, our part of our lineage and our identity. And then the state comes and takes all that and gives it to the person, to the people that never worked a day in their lives, that were always drunk day and night in the village. And then you see them with your livestock.

[00:11:13] You see them with your farming equipment and with your personal items. And that was very, very hurtful for my family. And also, my mom, from going, from having a good life materially and because of communism, suddenly she had to share her boots to go to school.

[00:11:40] And my mom lived in a village. The school was in another village, probably three to four miles away. And then in Romania, we have very harsh winters. Well, I want to tell you that my mom had eight more siblings and they couldn't go to school. No matter how much they loved to study, they had to share a pair of boots. And even though they had different sizes for their feet,

[00:12:09] they had to take turns in going to school because they only had this many pairs of boots. And they were rubber boots. They weren't even insulated boots. And my mom told me that oftentimes when they would get to school for those harsh winters and snow, their toes would feel frozen. And my mom loved education. So did my, I mean, the rest of her family.

[00:12:35] And looking today, how easy it is to just grab a book and read or go to school or even go online and learn. And then my mom, in order to do that, she had to sacrifice so much and she didn't have access to that. So I think we take a lot of things for granted today, just from my mom's experience. About my dad. My dad grew up in an average, I think, family. Very, very good.

[00:13:04] I mean, kind people, hardworking. But my father went to study in Bucharest. And let me, I want to make sure that I say the right, say the right way. It was an academy of economic sciences and he had a degree.

[00:13:28] And then during communism, you were, you had only very limited options when it came to higher education. Well, my father was able to study economics in our capital city. And from, from there, when he graduated, he was offered a job immediately. And I want to say he was offered a job. He had to choose a job. It's not like he actually had, there wasn't much room for, for choice.

[00:13:57] So my father went to work in another city and then the state gave him a place to live. And he, in exchange, he paid a very small amount per rent. But what I want to emphasize here, it's the fact that the government controls everything about you. It controls your education during communism.

[00:14:22] It controls the options, what you do, where you live, who do you live with? What are your living arrangements? And then you simply don't, don't have a choice. During communism, like I mentioned the story about my mom's livestock and farms and wealth. The government did the same with businesses. They took the businesses.

[00:14:50] All of a sudden, overnight, they said, your business is not your business anymore. It's ours. No compensation. No nothing. They did the same with real estate, with properties. Everything belongs to the state. Even your children, they don't belong to you because the state dictates how and what your children are going to study. It was, for my dad, I think it was also very hard.

[00:15:19] But when you are kind of born in collectivism, it's called collectivizata. It's the correct Romanian term and then nationalization. That's the process when the state takes your businesses, your property. When you are born into that, I don't think that you can feel as much because you don't have a comparison.

[00:15:45] But deep down inside, I think every single Romanian citizen back then, they knew that it was wrong because you weren't even able to express your public opinion. Because any dissident or anybody that would be considered dissident because that was very subjective would be imprisoned. And my parents' lives were dictated by the government.

[00:16:10] You lived in one of the most repressive times in Romania. When you were born, it was extremely repressive there. And some people get confused and think Romania was part of the Soviet Union, but it was separate from the Soviet Union.

[00:16:28] And as things were getting a little bit more free and a little bit looser in the Soviet Union, it was kind of the opposite in Romania. What is it you mentioned that you remember the lines for food? What are the most vivid memories that you have in addition to that? And I know you were very young, but I can remember being very young.

[00:16:59] And my brother, who's three years younger than me, I remember when he was born. I remember the house we were in. I remember the place that. So even when I was a little kid, I can remember some of that. But your memories are going to be so much different than what I could remember as a child. Right. And I'm going to start with a joke. I remember giving my mom a very hard time. Besides communism, I think I was a little rascal with my mom.

[00:17:28] And I remember one summer just wanting to wear a sweater. And my mom said, you're not going to make a fool of me and put me to shame in front of the community because the image in the community meant a lot. But going back to your question, I remember being cold sometimes. We did not have heating. We did not have electricity unless I think we had maybe a few hours per day.

[00:17:57] We had TV between, I believe, 7 to 9 p.m. It was just a couple hours. And then when you would turn on the TV and you'd be craving for news, you know, for a little bit to know what's going on in the country. All you'd see is Ceausescu and his wife being glorified. And I also have this memory of my dad walking in the living room with a plate with oranges.

[00:18:27] I mean, eating oranges, it was a luxury. And then me and my sister just going and just having them. And it was, oh, we also had a black and white TV. And I remember the revolution from 1989 when after so much suppression of like people's freedoms, there was hope suddenly.

[00:18:56] And I remember my parents just being in this frenzy, like euphoric state, waiting for something to be broadcast, broadcasted on television. So they would see that something had happened with the regime. And eventually that did happen. And my parents was just ecstatic.

[00:19:16] And I guess that no matter how much oppression there is inside people's hearts, there's always that need for and craving for freedom. Because God made us in his image. He made us free. He did not make us for bondage or to be oppressed. He made us to be free.

[00:19:41] And that day, 1989, in December, it basically changed the world for pretty much everybody in Romania. Although I have to mention that communism left the mark in all of us, I think even in me.

[00:20:04] Because since you are taken to daycare, to schools, you are learned to not have a voice, to not have an opinion, to don't think. You need to fit a certain stereotype and a box. And you cannot go beyond that.

[00:20:24] Also, what I've noticed is that during communism, it's having, I mean, as I said, having your own opinion, you cannot have it. And betraying others because communism was heavily reliant or dependent on some sort of like Gestapo, like secret police, like informers.

[00:20:52] There were a lot of citizens were just working for the secret police and informing. And that was something that was heavily rewarded in communism. So they were trying to suppress identity and values. With the informers, it had to make you not trust anyone. And your parents must not have been able to trust anyone because you never, like your mom saying you can't wear that sweater.

[00:21:20] It's because she didn't know who might turn her in for whatever, being a dissident because you had a sweater on. Exactly. Which sounds crazy, but it's probably something she was worried about. Exactly. And not only that, I remember looking at family photos with me and my sisters. So me and my elder sister, she was born in 85. I was born in 86. We had boycott, boy shortcuts or haircuts, sorry.

[00:21:49] I think that was just something common and standard. Like you see in North Korea or in other countries, you have nine types of haircuts. And then choose. I mean, if you can choose, you know. Right. So, yeah. When you mentioned the standing in line for food, you mentioned that you can remember being cold. Do you remember being hungry? Did your family have enough food?

[00:22:19] We did have enough food. Luckily, my dad had a good job. And he was CFO at a large factory. And that gave us a little bit more than the rest. But Jenny Beth, I tell you, there were many families and many children that were going to bed hungry. And then going to school.

[00:22:43] But by the time I started going into my first grade, we didn't have communism anymore. But that communism still lingered. And I've seen a lot of kids with broken shoes and nothing that you see today in America. Right. Kids with clothes that were probably worn out because they went through I don't know how many generations.

[00:23:12] And, yeah, people, there was poverty. And Ceausescu was always being, like, bragging that he was saving the economy and all these wonderful things that he was doing for the people. But in reality, the people were dying. They had no freedom. They had no food. They had no electricity. They had no heating. And then winters in Romania can be very harsh.

[00:23:43] He, at the same time, when he was saying that he was saving the economy, imagine that he built the largest administrative building in the world. Not only that, it is said that he also had, like, his own, for example, bathroom was made out of gold.

[00:24:04] So he cannot live in that opulence and know that people are dying, even though he might have not had the most accurate information of what was going on with the citizens in the country. He cannot impose someone to live on one pound of butter, five gallons of milk per month, unless you can. Right. As a leader.

[00:24:34] And in a way, I mean, I don't wish harm to anybody. I think there's grace for all of us, but the system itself got Ceausescu out. And it's what you mentioned about how nobody is safe from it. The system turned, the system, it eats its own. It just took, it got rid of him.

[00:25:04] Thankfully, it was happening at a time where the Soviet bloc was coming down as well. So freedom was opening up in parts of the world. I've spoken in this series to other people, like in China, where Tiananmen Square was happening at the same time that the Soviet Union was being liberated. So it was clamping down harder in some parts of the world.

[00:25:34] But it just, it's terrible. And it allows for dictators and the dictators come in and they just, they have to exert massive control because otherwise people won't do what they're told. And it's just, it's something that I think Americans just can't even begin to fathom. No. And it always comes dressed up as good intentions.

[00:26:01] You'll never hear them say, well, we're going to come, take your freedom. We're going to oppress you. No, it's everything. It's in the best interest of the citizens and for their safety. Like we have, for example, nowadays, we have the mass surveillance systems like FLOC and Axon. They say that, oh, they're going to solve crimes. And, but in reality, I think that they're only creating patterns of life for us. It's mass surveillance.

[00:26:30] But it's just dressed up as, oh, it's for your own good. The Soviet Union in Romania where there are secret police and informers everywhere. If they had had the ability to track like they can happen on our phone today or the FLOC camera technology. It had to be the thing of their dreams. They would have just loved it. I can't even imagine. Every come in his dream come true. Yes. Yeah.

[00:26:58] I've talked to someone in law enforcement recently. It's a side topic. So it isn't really what this is all about. But I think it's important because these cameras are a big deal. You said, well, we're, we're, basically we're catching the bad guys. And I'm like, uh-huh. And, and you actually are a person in law enforcement who I trust. And I don't think you're going to abuse, abuse your, your power.

[00:27:24] The problem is I, you should not have a technology that makes me have to trust you individually. You have to trust you. Exactly. It's, it isn't that you necessarily are the bad person, but who comes after you and how do I actually trust them? And they don't have the answer for that because they don't know because it's violating the rights that we list in our constitution. I totally agree.

[00:27:50] And then not only that, but is human trafficking still going on? Is drug trafficking, child trafficking? I, I don't think the numbers have changed and we've had lock and axon cameras for a while now. However, evil persisted the exact same rate. So I don't think, um, like mass surveillance systems. And now I'm going to extend this to data centers are in the best interest of, of our civilization. So to say.

[00:28:20] Yeah, it's a, um, it's something we're going to have to, to deal with as, as a, a society. Um, how long were you in Romania and when did you come to America and how did you come to be in America? Sure. Um, I came to America in 2013, um, after, after I graduated my master's degree.

[00:28:50] Um, actually since my second year of college, I worked for a state university. In Romania? Yes. In international relations. And then, um, somehow I got connected to the Leadership Institute in Washington, DC. So I've, uh, worked a little bit for them in Romania as well as in Europe. And they invited me over to work for them in, in DC. And that was actually my dream come true.

[00:29:13] I never planned to live in America, but I did want to, um, get a taste of, of America and also learn about what, what makes America the greatest nation on earth. Yes. So, uh, I came to, uh, the Leadership Institute in 2013.

[00:29:31] And I remember reading one of Margaret Thatcher's book where she said that the moment that she steps foot, she stepped foot, uh, on American soil, her very first time, she thought that everything worked in America. Yeah. And at that point, I didn't know much about politics in America, about the system, but I, I've learned, uh, at that point, I had learned like little bits and pieces about, for example, the Obamacare, because that was very controversial or the LGBTQ agenda.

[00:30:01] And I was thinking maybe Margaret Thatcher was not quite right. Although she's a big hero of mine and of my mom as well. Um, and then, um, I, uh, worked for six months because I was on a business visa. And then right before having to go back home, I met my, um, ex-husband and then, you know, the rest is history. Yeah. So, um, what about your parents? Are they still alive?

[00:30:31] No, unfortunately, my mom passed away, um, in 2022. Um, um, she had complications during a, um, heart surgery. And then I think my dad was so brokenhearted because of my mom passed away. They were best friends. They had the most beautiful marriage for 39 years. And I've seen them being, um, best friends. I've never heard my father or my mom sing a negative words to one another.

[00:30:58] And I think in, in somehow that set me and my, um, sisters up for a little bit of failure because I, we came into this world with the exact same expectations that, um, marriage is always going to work out. Um, it wasn't quite like that. Yeah. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work out. But that's okay. We learn from. We do. From everything. We certainly do. Yes. And, um, yeah, my dad unfortunately passed away in, uh, 2024.

[00:31:27] I say he passed away because he was heartbroken for my mom. Yeah. Um, but they got to know that you lived in America. What did they think of that? So my dad, after my mom passed away, my dad, uh, came to visit two times and I believe he stayed here about three months each time. Um, he absolutely loved it.

[00:31:49] He could not believe first and foremost, how clean the streets were having that comparison with Romania, how civilized everything was. And one, one thing that really made him a little bit wonder was why weren't there any people in the street, in the neighborhood? Because my dad really loved to walk, you know, um, I mean, Romania, it's kind of a, has lots of, uh, cities where you, you walk.

[00:32:18] But here in America, my, my dad was wondering why people don't walk in the streets. Um, and then did your mom come as well? No, no, she, she never got to, to visit, unfortunately. Exactly. Your mom's family and what they took from her, I can't even imagine what that is like. And it's one of the themes that I'm hearing from this series of interviews that I'm doing.

[00:32:46] And almost every interview, the, the person says that in a communist society, they take private property. Right. And it's one of the first things that they do. It, it doesn't belong to you. So freedom and rights are just an illusion. And under communism, um, my mom, uh, my mom's family, they had a lot of wealth. They even had people working for them.

[00:33:15] Um, communism just came one day and said, everything that you have is ours. And in, in, in Romania, uh, in the country, in the countryside, there's this sacred, uh, I want to say connection that we have between land and people because it's, it's in our culture that we come from earth. We go back to earth and land is kind of sacred. It's part of one's identity, part of one's lineage. And that one was broken.

[00:33:44] Um, my mom always told me this story with tears in her eyes. And, uh, I can't imagine how traumatic it was for my great grandfather who fought so hard to, um, preserve it. Because having an, uh, an estate with, uh, large, um, livestock with a lot of farming land, that takes so much. And it's a, it's all hands on deck for the entire family.

[00:34:13] It's a, it's a lot of work. And then suddenly someone takes that away from you. It takes your purpose. It takes your identity. It takes your lineage. Um, I think that's one of the greatest forms of abuse that my family has, has endured. How, so her grandparents saw this happen and her parents saw it happen. How long did you know your grandparents?

[00:34:43] I am sure you didn't know your great grandparents, but were your grandparents still alive when you were a little girl? They were, they were alive. And also my mom, um, was a little girl when that happened. She saw it with her own eyes when the state came in and took their property away. Um, my grandfather didn't talk much about that because it was very painful.

[00:35:06] I think what, what he chose, uh, was to, um, create hope and something positive out of all of it. And he was, he became a pastor in our, um, community in the village. He was hosting prayer and he just fought for the communism and through the trauma that communism, um, embedded on him with, with faith.

[00:35:35] And that's, it's hard to believe that even in the midst of all of that, he was, maybe that's the wrong thing to say. I think it is an example of how strong his faith must have been to be able to continue to hold onto it in the face of all of that. Not, it's hard to believe it because there are plenty of examples of people who hold onto faith, but it's, it, he had enormous faith.

[00:36:01] And it's, basically it's the power of God that when you, when you put your faith in him, no matter what the world looks like, the circumstances, God will always get you through it. And he will build something beautiful out of ashes on, and all that ugliness that communism brought to my family. Under communism, um, an idea of Marxism and Leninism is that human beings can be perfected.

[00:36:31] And they just, if the government can just do enough, you, you can become perfect. And it, it leads to, to death because if you're not doing it all, you're, I suppose you're disappeared as another guest in the series has said.

[00:36:48] And then as things were loosening, as I mentioned before, during, during the latter part of the 80s, uh, in the Soviet Union, it was tightening even in Romania before the fall of the dictator with this concept of the new man. Do you know a lot about that? And, and what, what is it that they were trying to accomplish by making people perfect?

[00:37:13] So, they were trying to strip people, uh, out of their identity and just make, make them, I want to say a little bit like, like, like robots to, to, uh, always submit, to never question. And to, um, to, uh, always submit, to, uh, always submit, to, uh, always submit, to, to, to, to, to, to, to perform. And those that would not perform or those that would, um, be, um, would dare to speak against the regime would be imprisoned.

[00:37:39] Um, that came from, it started with the education, with that bringing, with, um, the way the, like the communism attacked families and the nuclear family as well. If you say today that the nuclear families attacked for the LGBTQ agenda and this woke ideology, back then family was, um, attacked just in, in different ways.

[00:38:07] They were not allowed to have, for example, faith in God. And, uh, if, if you dare to, uh, say that you do believe in God, you would be imprisoned and, um, nobody would be able to find anything about you. For example, we had, uh, Pastor, uh, Richard Rumbrand who was, um, imprisoned for his faith for about 13 years. Um, he did not know that his wife was alive and his wife was imprisoned in a, in a, in a different detention center.

[00:38:34] Uh, she did not know that he was alive and they were both told that, uh, they were, that I think they hanged themselves or another, another lie. Um, you can't be yourself. You cannot be free under communism. Uh, and when you don't perform, you're being put to the side. Right. Taken out. Right. Um, and then when you say that really there's stripping you of your individualism. Right.

[00:39:03] It goes back to the collectivism you were talking about before and the lack of identity. They want everyone to identify really with, they want to replace God and the family and everyone with the, the state. Right. And I'm going to give you one more example. Um, I've just want to let you know that I am pro-faith. I mean, pro, pro-family. Um, we had in, I believe it was the sixties or the seventies.

[00:39:32] So immediately after Toshezko got into power, he said there will be no more abortion. Well, you know, it sounds great so far, right? Right. But not when you restrict, um, contraceptive methods and when they're not available. Because in people, they, they, you take that, that choice away from them. And then all of a sudden we had, um, foster care full of children and which, you know, we're grateful. Life is the, it's the biggest gift that God gives us.

[00:40:01] But leave people choice so they can, if they want to have kids, so they can conceive. If they don't want to conceive, so they would have the means not to conceive. So everything was planned under Toshezko. And by that, you mean not even just abortion, but they couldn't use any means. Contraceptive. Wow. You were not able to buy it. They did not exist.

[00:40:22] I think under the table, you could have bought maybe some sort of pills that would do abortion, but that's evil. Right. Like, okay, if, if you want to control that, give, give people, uh, options in the sense that, so they would, uh, not get pregnant women. Right. If they don't want to. Wow. Yeah. So everything was planned. There was no, uh, choice.

[00:40:51] And they need, I would imagine then that part of the reason for that without, I, I'm guessing here, because I don't know the full history, would be because they needed more people in order to, to do. Yes. The positions that they're required to do for society, for the jobs that the government decided they were going to do. Right. So we had a lot of external debt back then.

[00:41:16] And Ceausescu became a little bit maniac with trying to pay off the external debts that Romania had then. So he came up with this, with this plan that we needed more people, but it, he didn't think it through because all these children that were not wanted, unfortunately, they ended up in foster care. So they ended up in the care of the state. So the state had to pay for them.

[00:41:41] Um, and, um, what, what, what he wanted to achieve was also increase, you know, production, uh, and, and exports and limit imports and product diversity in, in stores. But, uh, uh, going back to, to, uh, children and, and what, what he wanted to achieve was just simply, um, not, not attainable. And he did not think things through all the way to the end.

[00:42:14] Listening to you describe it. It's, it's such a, it's like a, it's a foreign land, of course, cause it's not America, but it's just, it's, it's not just that it's foreign. It's the concepts that you're describing. It's things that I don't think most people here in America could ever even imagine. The people who are clamoring for more, more government control and for socialism and the democratic socialists of America, they have no idea how this is going to play out.

[00:42:44] The, the reading, the, the literature and the literature sounds wonderful. You don't have to worry about your house. Your house is provided for, you don't have to worry about healthcare. Healthcare is provided. You won't have bills anymore. Right. You don't own, you don't owe anybody anything and you don't own anything as well, but then you are owned by the state, by the government.

[00:43:06] You have no more, uh, say in what, what you're going to study, uh, where you're going to live, uh, if you're going to have children or not, because. How does it play out when they say, like with your house, they took your family, your mother's home. And everything, where did she wind up living in? And did you, you couldn't buy your own house, right? How did that work? Right.

[00:43:32] So fortunately they did not take my, my mom's house, but they did take a considerable amount of land, livestock, equipment and whatnot. Um, they did, um, take from people, large properties. For example, the house where I grew up in, in Romania, it was kind of like a Jewish palace.

[00:43:56] It was, uh, right now today, the building is about 250, uh, years old and we had very thick walls. And I remember it's like almost like five to six feet, like thickness of walls, like very, very beautiful, historic buildings. Well, those buildings were taken from the owners without any kind of compensation. And then the state just decided who is going to live there, uh, how, for how long.

[00:44:24] And then if, for example, when my dad got married and, um, um, he wanted to start a family with, and have kids, um, he asked basically permission from the government to, uh, get another, uh, uh, place where it would accommodate, uh, a family. So that's how we got the house where I lived in. And then after the fall of communism, my parents, uh, bought that house for a very, very small amount. It was very affordable.

[00:44:55] But, um, soon after my parents bought the house, um, the rightful owners appeared and they said, well, this is our house. We want it back. And we had to go through, uh, a lawsuit. And, uh, the state eventually, uh, offered some compensation to the rightful owners. But the, um, communism brought so many scars and, and hurt so many people with just taking their, their property.

[00:45:22] You know, you've worked hard your entire life. And then all of a sudden you get rewarded by being basically put on the street or becoming a tenant into, into your own house. Um, yes. And this is what happens with, with big governments. And it doesn't happen all of a sudden. Um, I mean, the, the transition to, to communism, it's gradual and it always comes dressed up in, in this very good ideas and propaganda.

[00:45:51] What you're probably familiar with. It's all for, for your own good. It's for your own rights. But in reality, it's exactly the opposite. Um, what kind of. What patterns are you seeing here in America? We talked about the flat cameras. Right. The, the free things that aren't really free because then you're owned by the, the government. Right. Well, I'm going to start with, um, illegal immigration.

[00:46:20] I see people breaking into this country. I came here legally for the legal process. Um, it was a little costly and it was lengthy. Um, it took me a few years to become a citizen, but it's doable. However, when I see people coming into this country, breaking the law and getting rewarded for it, it makes me angry.

[00:46:41] And I, I, I think it's, it's, it's, it's a righteous anger because someone who doesn't respect this country enough to enter it legally does not respect me as a citizen. And it does not respect you or will ever respect the law. That's why we, we find ourselves today with so many states where we have people like Ilan Omar and Mamdami. And then you have so much fraud.

[00:47:06] And then you see in California, one person with, with a lot of courage that they're to expose them. What do we have now? Laws against them. So he would be in prison if he does it again. Um, the signs are there. In California, I think it's a communist, uh, state because freedom of speech. It's, it's not allowed as I just, uh, mentioned earlier, for example, with Nick Shirley. Nick Shirley, no freedom of speech, no freedom of promise. What, what, what did he do wrong?

[00:47:35] He went there to expose fraud. Right. I, I would have shaken his hand and say, thank you. There was no prosecution, no arrests, but there was legislation against, against him. Exactly. Well, that's communism. And then, um, another thing that I want to say that we must learn from Europe with illegal immigration. Look at the crisis that we have in Spain, in France, in Belgium. If you go in Belgium right now, you're going to see burqas and ghetto in the, in the street.

[00:48:04] Belgium was not like that. Entire Europe was pretty safe. Uh, when I used to live back then, I used to travel a lot in Europe and, um, I, I could be just by myself, uh, as a, you know, in, in my twenties, go, go for a walk in the, in the evening. And I was totally fine. Today is a total different, uh, story.

[00:48:25] Um, people commit, came in, especially from, from developing countries where they've asked for free healthcare, for, uh, free housing, all sorts of these benefits. So we had the, the hardworking citizens in, in Europe that were supporting basically these, this, this immigrants that were able to work, but they did not want to work. And they were just multiplying.

[00:48:53] They have, they have a very high, high, I think it's called fertility rate in comparison to the European who's very calculated and, and say, well, you know, I'm going to have just one child because I want to make sure I can afford to raise the child. And then you have the immigrants who say, well, I'm going to have maybe five kids or 10 kids because I want to take over this, this country. Um, and, um, unfortunately Europe woke up a little bit way too late, um, for this, but I,

[00:49:21] I have a lot of faith in Marine Le Pen in France, Alice Whittle in, um, in Germany. And I'll, I'll be praying for, for Spain. That's all I can say. And also we have to recognize that pattern here in, in America. We cannot, uh, have people cross the border illegally and then welcome them and say, oh, here you go. Here's an EBT card. Here's free, uh, healthcare.

[00:49:47] I, I mean, for my, uh, healthcare, for my insurance, uh, my family had to pay for it here and it wasn't cheap at all for four people. I think we used to pay it, maybe a little bit over a thousand dollars, but you have a family that, that, that comes in and then all of a sudden they get free healthcare and then free everything. And then who am I working for or for what?

[00:50:12] At the end of the day, I, you're discouraging me to, to not, to not pay my taxes anymore, to break the law. When I see that breaking the law and, and being dependent on, on the state is what is being rewarded. Right. It, the patterns are, um, they're just, they're quite alarming because there's so much happening

[00:50:38] here that the, especially, well, first what you just described with the, the illegal immigrants coming, it's very alarming in and of itself. And that is a massive change in its patterns we should be alarmed by. And then we have the patterns that we have to be alarmed by, by the younger generation who just doesn't, I, I don't think that the younger generation are bad people.

[00:51:04] They just don't understand and they haven't been taught what you went through and what your family and others went through. Now, I think the younger generations, um, for example, people in their twenties and early thirties, they're completely oblivious to the socialist agenda. And I don't want to sound like someone who's, you know, with conspiracies, but it's a fact. The more you let government take over, the more you give your freedom and then you're going

[00:51:32] to end up not owning your own life, not owning your own children. Like it's unfortunately, um, people are not aware. And I'm very saddened by the fact that, um, whenever I go to political meetings, to legislative district meetings, or even to this great system that we have in Arizona, it's called request to speak. And where you can testify during, uh, the legislative sessions, or even you can go to, um, like the

[00:52:01] city council and other places. And you can, you can tell your opinion. I don't see young people there. And, um, I think that's, that's a problem because they, they're probably, uh, with this, those generations that they've, uh, grew up with phones, with tablets, with content, always selecting content and receiving content and not, um, being taught to think.

[00:52:28] And that, that makes me think again, going back to, to communism in Romania, where we had the exact same thing. We always had some sort of distraction or some sort of strategy to not let people think, especially the young one, because when you, you know, as you teach them when they're young, that's how they're going to be when they're going to, to grow up. And that's, that's a concern for America. I really wish that the younger generations would, would wake up and would realize how much power it's in their voices, how much they can accomplish and how important it is for them

[00:52:57] to stand up to the government and to understand the government. How does it work? So Jenny Beth, I started getting involved a little bit in politics in the beginning of, of this year in March. I walked one day at Eazy AZ, as you know, Marissa Caldwell, she's amazing. And, um, I was hopeless at that time because I've seen so many systemic failures that were happening and basically communist agendas in the entire levels, like so many levels of government.

[00:53:27] And then I walked into Eazy AZ and then my entire world changed in just one day because I've seen hope. I've seen things that work. And Marissa was teaching, it was actually, um, uh, a little lesson on, uh, request to speak and how to write bills. And I realized, well, I see so many things being wrong and I can change them. And she was teaching how to, and I said, I really need to shadow this woman. I need to learn from her.

[00:53:53] And then I became, um, involved a little bit with, with Eazy AZ. And, uh, I started to learn more and more about government. And I've seen the, the same patterns that we've had, uh, with a socialist, socialism and communism in, uh, in Romania. And I love this country now. Now it's my country as well. And I want it to thrive. And it can only thrive if people get involved, if citizens stand up and they make their voices heard and they say no more to the government.

[00:54:22] And then the government actually should be us, the people and for the people and under God. And one thing that we can never take out, uh, I think of, of our lives, of our identity and of the entire civilization is God because he created us. He made us in his own image. And at the end of the day, it's even in the, it's, it's on our dollar bills, right? Right. It's one nation under God. It's in the constitution. Yes. And, um, socialism always tried to remove that.

[00:54:52] And then we see now in New York with Mamdami trying to take God out. Like that's, that's not going to happen. It shouldn't happen. And I, I hope that young people will, um, somehow learn and, and see the patterns as well and just wake up and say, no more communism. We don't want it.

[00:55:17] What is the one or a one thing that you think Americans need to be on guard about? Well, I can tell you when, um, communism entered Romania, one thing that they started with, we had, um, a monarchy back then. We had King Mihai and we became under, we got under Soviet occupation in 1944.

[00:55:40] Um, in 1940, 1945, King Mihai was forced basically to put one certain person over the ministry of interior, over, uh, courts and over law enforcement. So I would start there. I think we have to pay a lot of attention to what's going on with our law enforcement, with, um, uh,

[00:56:04] our legal system and, um, just make sure that because when you control law enforcement and, and, uh, the legal system, you, you kind of get to make the rules. Right. And I, I, I think that's something that we should pay attention to. Of course, we have this big red flags with that, that we were talking about earlier, uh,

[00:56:27] the flock and accent, um, cameras, um, or with the LGBTQ agenda, which I'm so upset because it's just one, it, it's one strategy to, um, confuse people, to change their identity. Uh, because when you have someone that's, for example, and then with the racism and, and this gender ideology, you, you weaken someone's identity, you erode it, and then you have someone

[00:56:56] who's, uh, easily, uh, offendable. And, and that person is going to be very easy to manipulate because we know social, socialism always appeals to someone's emotions. So we have to be careful with that as well. And, and, um, be on guard, um, and aware that, um, we also live in this, in this, uh, culture of, uh, self gratification and my happiness comes first.

[00:57:25] No, it's our country. It's God, it's our country. It's family. Let's not be selfish. And I'll, I'll leave it at that. And then the last question, you were three years, three years ish old when, when communism fell in Romania, you still can remember it. And you remember seeing the hope in your, your parents face faces as they thought about what life would be like after, after that.

[00:57:53] What is your message to people today in America who just can't imagine what you, who haven't experienced that. So they just don't know. I would say do not be deceived by, um, what the government tells you, um, by what comes dressed up as something positive and for your own good.

[00:58:20] Um, start asking questions, start showing up and, and, uh, get, get involved because, uh, if you don't, our freedoms are going to be taken away from us and it's going to be seamlessly. We're just going to wake up one day and we're going to ask ourselves, how, how did we get there? But all the signs are there. So I would urge everybody to just wake up.

[00:58:49] Uh, I've seen a lot of people trying to flee communism and run for it. And some of them lost their lives in the process, but I've never seen anybody saying, well, I want to go and live in North Korea and live the life and the, you know, the North Korean dream. I've heard about people, you know, bragging all day long and, and talking about the American dream, but not about the Chinese dream or it's, it's an illusion. Communism.

[00:59:16] It's something that, uh, it's, it's just deception and we must recognize it. We must pay attention to it. We must fight it. Manuela Kalini. Thank you so much. Thank you very much for joining me today. Well, thank you so much for having me, Jenny Beth. Appreciate it. That was Manuela Collini. Before we close, we hope you'll share part or all of this episode of Surviving Communism with your family and friends so they understand the unintended real life consequences of socialism

[00:59:46] and communism. Be sure to vote for liberty and our constitutional system and against communism. To help us get out the vote, go to IWillSaveAmerica.com. Be sure to check out our interview with Ovidiu Frusina, who is also from Romania and was labeled a traitor when he was young. If you liked this episode and found it was worth your time, hit like and subscribe. It's how we can make sure these conversations reach more people.

[01:00:13] I'm Jenny Beth Martin, and this has been our Surviving Communism series with The Jenny Beth Show. If you enjoyed today's conversation, go ahead and hit like and subscribe. It really helps us reach more people who care about liberty and the Constitution. You can find this and other episodes at JennyBethShow.com, as well as Facebook, YouTube, Rumble, Instagram, X, and your favorite podcast platform. The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin.

[01:00:42] The Jenny Beth Show is a production of Tea Party Patriots Action. For more information, visit TeaPartyPatriots.org. It's pretty much pressure, but it's really formal, and so and so it went into the program, … Do you want? Remember.