Ban Sharia: 1.9 Million Texans Just Voted to Outlaw It │ Frank Gaffney

[00:00:14] Welcome to The Jenny Beth Show. There is a movement operating inside the United States right now that has declared, in its own words, on video, that the Constitution must be replaced, that American law must give way to Sharia, and that Islam will, in their own words, enter every house.

[00:00:33] This is a documented, organized, openly stated agenda. And the man joining me today has been studying it and exposing it at the highest levels of American national security for decades. Frank Gaffney is the president of the Institute for the American Future and the host of Securing America on Real America's Voice. And today, he is leading the campaign to do something the political class says is impossible, to ban Sharia law.

[00:01:00] I'm Jenny Beth Martin, and this is The Jenny Beth Show. Frank, thanks so much for joining me today. Frank Gaffney, The Jenny Beth It's great to be with you, Jenny Beth. Thank you so much for having me. Jennifer Lange All right. Before we get into Sharia law and the ins and outs of it and what needs to be, why there is a problem and what needs to be done about it, let's talk about your background and your qualifications.

[00:01:22] So introduce yourself more thoroughly to the audience and tell what you do and how you've come to do this. Frank Gaffney, The Jenny Beth Well, thank you. I have been involved in national security policy for the better part of five decades now, amazingly, starting in the United States Senate. Frank Gaffney, The Jenny Beth, I worked on the Senate Armed Services Committee for a time working for President Reagan, acting at the end of it as an Assistant Secretary of Defense.

[00:01:52] In the interviewing years, I've mostly been working in the private sector public policy national security space, as you know. Frank Gaffney, The Jenny Beth, I founded and ran for the better part of 37 years, an organization called the Center for Security Policy. That's where we first met, I think. Subsequently, starting in the end of 2024, I began working with my new outfit. It's called the Institute for the American Future.

[00:02:23] As with the Center, it's about trying to help good people in government make good policy and get public support for it. A not-for-profit organization, charitable, usfuture.org is where people can find out more about it and contribute if they would.

[00:02:42] Its purpose is to really identify and help develop bases for countering the various threats we face, including the one we're going to be talking about today. And we have something we call the Victory Coalition that is all about clarifying and energizing the American people to understand what we're up against in the way of Sharia and the need to ban it. And the website for that is bansharia.com.

[00:03:11] Okay. I'm just making a note of the website. So it's bansharia.com. And I love the other website, usfuture.org. That is a great URL. Yeah, it's amazing we got it. Well, I'm very glad that you did. So, ban Sharia. Why should we ban Sharia? What is it exactly? And why is it worthy of talking about banning it? It's not only worthy of talking about it, I think it's absolutely imperative that we talk about it. And it's the foundational question, of course.

[00:03:39] Sharia is, in Arabic, the word is the path, the way, the comprehensive direction for the practicing Muslim, the faithful Muslim, the adherent Muslim. It is, in practice though, not a faith.

[00:04:08] It has what I call a patina of religiosity to it. You know, how you pray and where and what you eat and what you don't eat. But the bulk of it is about power. It is a political, military, legal, pick a word, system, doctrine, ideology.

[00:04:33] I think what best describes it honestly is a death cult, a demonic death cult at that. Because most of what it is about is about how do you brutalize other people, particularly women, as it happens.

[00:04:50] How do you conquer, how do you wage jihad, meaning holy war, for the purposes of establishing Sharia as not only the way, the path for Muslims, but for the entire world. So it's important to which people who aren't Muslim will have to be killed or pay a tax and submit or be killed.

[00:05:16] So it's really critical to understand that under no circumstances should this be regarded as a religion and therefore entitled to the protections of our Constitution's First Amendment. Instead, it should be banned. And that's a sort of shorthand way of describing what will it take to do that.

[00:05:40] But it's vital that we make clear this is incompatible with our Constitution, our form of government, our freedoms, and must be defeated rather than submitted to. So, Frank, when you call it a death cult, that is very strong language. Some people would say that is overkill or hyperbole or just you're using rhetoric to make a point.

[00:06:10] I don't think that's what you are doing, though. Explain why you're actually using that exact phrase. I think it aptly describes what Sharia entails. When it talks about when you meet the unbelievers, slay them.

[00:06:28] When it talks about stoning women to death for being involved in a rape, adultery, they call it. When it talks about beheading enemies.

[00:06:47] When it talks about enslaving people and in the course of it, if necessary, murdering the slave. To say nothing of the rapes and the child rapes. I mean, the thing that is so critical to understanding what we're up against here is to look at the life of this so-called perfect man. As I mentioned, Muhammad, their prophet.

[00:07:15] But virtually everything he did, everything he personally espoused, everything that he claimed was permissible or claimed was impermissible,

[00:07:29] brings you back to this idea that this is truly not only intolerant, not only hateful, not only domineering, but this is about death.

[00:07:48] This is about inflicting it for terrifying purposes, not least to advance this idea of establishing Sharia as the global system of law worldwide. So what did Muhammad do in his life? Well, it began for the purposes of this discussion in a place called Mecca, when he was trying to kind of get this religion,

[00:08:13] which he had basically cobbled together from bits and pieces of other existing faiths, notably Christianity and Judaism, some, you know, pagan religions and so on. He was illiterate. So the religion was basically fashioned out of what he said were revelations that he had received.

[00:08:40] And during his time in Mecca, when he was basically poor and powerless, those revelations were more benign. They were ostensibly coming from Allah, a moon god in some of these previous religions. But he made it the sole being of his faith.

[00:09:11] That period saw Allah telling him, love the people of the book, by which were meant the Christians and Jews. The people who were the ruling power in Mecca, finally tired of this guy and drove him out.

[00:09:33] And he made the first Muslim migration to another town called Medina. And in Medina, over time, he became wealthy, married a wealthy widow.

[00:09:52] And he wound up getting revelations that were very different as he gained both political influence as well as, you know, religious prominence. And in the past, the revelations became very hateful, very intolerant, very domineering.

[00:10:12] Among other things, they said, you know, go raid caravans and, you know, you get to keep the booty from it, including the women that you find that you can enslave and so on. But the point is that the trajectory of Muhammad's life from Mecca to Medina and what it inspired going forward in terms of his conquests, his raids on caravans.

[00:10:38] Yes, but ultimately conquests and those of his followers after his death. All came into conflict with some of those earlier passages. And it's important to understand that the way the authorities of Islam have squared the competing admonitions to love the people of the book early in his life and to slay the unbelievers, do not befriend them and so on.

[00:11:07] In the latter part of his career is to say that what came last abrogated what came first. So what governs under Sharia is the hateful, the domineering, the conquering, not the relatively benign stuff.

[00:11:29] And that it's central to understand that because the way the Koran is, you know, published is as though somebody sort of shuffled the deck, taking some of the stuff from the first phase and some of the stuff from the second phase and intermingling them, which makes it, I think, generally incoherent. But until you back out of it and say, okay, what are the early passages versus the later passages?

[00:11:58] And then apply this principle, as they call it, of abrogation. That's the life of Muhammad. And during the most, you know, important for this purpose of his activities in life and his sayings, his injunctions, his prohibitions is where this death cult emanates. He was a warlord. He was a conqueror. He was a terrorist.

[00:12:28] He was a man who was driven to take what was not his and, if he could, kill the people who possessed it. And that is at the core, unfortunately, of Sharia. I'm not saying that every Muslim does embrace all of that. I'm certainly not saying that every one of them practices it.

[00:12:53] But what's important, Jenny Beth, is to understand that that's what they're called to do. To be an adherent Muslim, you are expected to emulate the perfect man. And that's what makes this so, well, not just dangerous, but truly diabolical, I believe. So why are they expected to emulate the perfect man and where does it, where are they directed to do that? And the perfect man, I guess, should be in air quotes.

[00:13:24] Well, he's called to such in the Koran. And it repeatedly says he is to be, you know, taken as a model and to be, as I say, emulated. And it's not a matter of debate. I mean, any Sharia scholar will tell you that that is the case.

[00:13:46] OK. And in his life, he had the revelations and then he also acted on them and was actually the conqueror. And did he also rape women? And you mentioned a few minutes ago, raping children. Where does that part come from? Let me just say that there is a question as to whether Muhammad ever existed.

[00:14:09] The Koran was the first Koran, we're told, was actually served up some 200 years after his death. And whether he was real or whether he's a function of, you know, sort of the creative minds of people who wish to justify their conquests,

[00:14:28] justify their rapaciousness, justify their violence is a matter of debate within, you know, academic circles, I guess. But let me simply say, for the purpose of our discussion, assume he existed, assume what he did in his life has, in fact, been enshrined in this program of Sharia,

[00:14:57] codified in the Koran and in Hadiths and surahs, these various products, surahs, that describe him in considerable detail and what he liked and didn't like and what he, you know, prohibited, called haram and what he made halal or, you know, acceptable.

[00:15:23] And the rape bit is amply documented in all of these sources. You know, it was built into his program that you were entitled to take what your right hand can possess. I think it's the term. If you if you raid a caravan and there are women in it, you can enslave them. You can take them into sexual slavery. You can rape them.

[00:15:53] You can kill them if you choose to, but you can sell them if you chose to. But it's it's baked in, in other words. And the child rape thing is actually also written up because he. He, I think, had a dream about having as his wife, a six year old daughter of one of his generals, as I recall. And he married her at six.

[00:16:24] And in an exercise, I guess, of, you know, great self-restraint. He didn't rape her until she was nine. But that's when the marriage was consummated. So, again, this is not a matter of dispute. And the only question is, do Muslims believe that they are allowed to do similarly? And of course, there's ample evidence that they do, including in this country as well.

[00:16:53] Take child brides and have them, I guess, sexually when they're nine, if not before. It's unfathomable to it's very difficult to not to grasp. But as an American who grew up thinking that is completely unacceptable, it's hard to wrap your head around it.

[00:17:17] And I think that there are people who probably find it difficult or may wind up turning it off and going, oh, yeah, they're they're crazy. But I I understand you. You know, this you've studied it. And in your basing this, you're saying this based on fact now. A hundred percent. And let me just say it's not only, you know, unacceptable. It's illegal. It's illegal. As is most of what they are doing.

[00:17:45] And the real question which brings this program to, I think, such an importance, really, Jenny Beth, is. Most Americans have no idea of any of this, let alone that it is actually going on in varying degrees inside our country. But it is. And don't take my word for any of this. It's all eminently accessible in various online resources.

[00:18:14] You and I were talking before we began taping about the reliance of the traveler. Back to date myself. But it's it's the size of a large city telephone book. It is. It's a big book. It's a big, thick book. But it has documentation of all of this and makes absolutely clear what Sharia is.

[00:18:37] And that is a comprehensive way of life that leads to the conquest of the world through jihad. And jihad can take various forms. The violent kind is perfect, perfect man. The preferred means because it's the most efficient.

[00:18:57] If you terrify and you kill and you compel, you can most efficiently get people to submit, which is what the literal meaning is of the word Islam. If you can't, for whatever reason, do that at the moment, you still should when you can. But there are other techniques.

[00:19:19] There are things that they call civilization jihad techniques, whereby you you kind of I call it frog boiling. You know, that old analogy of you want to boil a frog, turn up the heat incrementally. There's an electoral jihad. And this is in your wheelhouse, how you can see a conquest taking place through democratic means.

[00:19:47] If you have disciplined block votes, even in the minority, there's womb jihad, which is simply, you know, outpopulating the host population. I guess producing the host population.

[00:20:07] And that's a function of, you know, the hijra, that migration that Muhammad made initially from Mecca to Medina to bring the faith to lands where it doesn't exist for the purpose of conquering them, of replacing, in our case, our constitution and the laws promulgated pursuant to it and the freedoms that we enjoy under it with Sharia.

[00:20:36] OK, I'm going to ask a few follow up questions based on what you said. First, I think it is important to go back and highlight the fact that you said that not all Muslims practice this, not all Muslims embrace it. You did say they are directed to do so, but they don't all do that.

[00:20:59] And I think it's very important that we highlight that because we're not pointing a finger at every single person who practices a Muslim faith. And and I think it's just important to highlight to highlight that what we are in what you are trying to do is to explain what Sharia is. And in why we have to look at what is happening in America related to to Sharia law.

[00:21:32] So when you why? Why is it that you're having to explain what it is right now in this time in America? And why is it that this is a threat right now? Well, let me go back to the first point.

[00:21:48] I am absolutely stipulating that there are people who consider themselves Muslim, cultural Muslims or even, you know, faithful Muslims in their mind who don't want to live under Sharia. They don't want to impose it on anybody else. They don't want to, you know, engage in jihad for the purposes of bringing it here. In a lot of cases of Muslims in this country, I think they came here to get away from it.

[00:22:18] The problem is, while we might call those good Muslims. As opposed to the dangerous, murderous Sharia supremacist ones. The authorities of this program in places like Al-Azhar University and, you know, the various nations in which Sharia is the law of the land.

[00:22:43] Literally, they regard those good Muslims in our eyes as not only bad Muslims, but as apostates. And under Sharia, it is absolutely the case that it is a capital offense to be an apostate, to be a blasphemer, to be someone who's leaving the faith.

[00:23:09] And because the penalty is so extreme, we rarely hear from Muslims who actually aren't with the program. I'm fond of saying they don't want to put their head above the parapet because they're quite reasonably concerned that it'd be cut off.

[00:23:29] So, if that's the case, it makes all the more concerning the idea that we're imputing to all of the Muslim community what we think is the benign attitude of those apostates.

[00:23:52] It's not. The people who matter, the people who are dominant, the people who are calling the shots are 100% those who the authorities of Islam, again, would call good Muslims. For our purposes, they're jihadists, they're terrorists, they're whatever else we want to call them. Extremists, fundamentalists, Islamists, there are lots of different names.

[00:24:17] But the thing that's most important about all of this, Jenny Beth, is they actually understand what the program is. They're not off on a toot. They are executing what Muhammad directed. They are doing what the Quran requires. They are following Sharia law. And to that end, they are intent on making sure that all Muslims, what we think of as good, they think of as bad.

[00:24:47] What they know is good, what we think of as bad. And then all the rest of us as well must all submit to Sharia. And by the way, when we're told Islam is a religion of peace, the only circumstance under which there is peace with Islam is if the entire world is governed by Sharia.

[00:25:15] It's, again, hard to get your head around this. But until then, what they call the house of war, the Dar al-Harb in Arabic, as opposed to the Dar al-Islam, the house of Islam, there will be no peace between those two houses until there is no more house of war. It's been conquered.

[00:26:11] Those who are older than, say, 30 years old. Maybe if they're a little bit younger than that because they don't really remember 9-11 or they were born after 9-11, it may be more difficult for them. But the ones who are about 30 and older remember 9-11. And we can understand what terrorism is because we experienced it and saw it on our own soil in such a massive way.

[00:26:35] And we can look at what's happening in Iran and the fact that Iran funds terrorism and understand that that is wrong and something we don't want to happen. So as you're talking about Sharia and you're talking about that it brutalizes and terrorizes and it is working to submit to get people to submit to it. Wait, how is that happening in America?

[00:27:03] Because I think that a lot of people, they can understand it when they're looking at things that have happened from outside of the country into the country. But I think that it's difficult. It's more difficult to understand it here in inside of America. Let me just say, this is a process.

[00:27:22] And it might be helpful to look outside the country for a moment to Great Britain, where we're watching a nation not unlike ours, some differences, of course, but fundamentally one that, well, inspired, you know, our freedoms and our Western civilization. And did much to, you know, defend it over the years.

[00:27:50] But Britain is some years, it's a matter of dispute about how many, some years farther down this process of civilization jihad than we are. It is a perfect example of the frog boiling.

[00:28:07] It is the cumulative effect of now decades of accommodations by the British to the immigrants that they foolishly, frankly, recklessly led into their country. Many of them, not all, but many of them from South Asia, Pakistan specifically.

[00:28:32] And just to give you one example, for some 50 years now, there has been a phenomenon in which principally, again, not exclusively, but principally Pakistani men have been organizing what have come to be called rape gangs.

[00:28:51] Whereas, whereby they will basically seduce and then enslave young British girls. I note this not to be condemning, but I think it's relevant to what has happened, that they mostly are working class girls, you know, lower class in a very class conscious society. Why is that important?

[00:29:21] Because the authorities in Britain, the, you know, law enforcement, the politicians, the judicial system has tended to look the other way at what's been going on here.

[00:29:38] In the course of those roughly 50 years, according to Tommy Robinson, who, by the way, just had a sensational, you know, million person demonstration in the streets of London, animated in no small measure by people responding to this rape gang phenomenon. By some estimates, a million girls, British girls have been subjected to this kind of enslavement and serial rape and other horrors.

[00:30:08] And the government has turned a blind eye to it almost entirely. There have been some prosecutions, mostly of late, but it's an example of how this happens that I wanted to bring to your attention in connection with your question about here. Are there rape gangs operating here? I believe there are. How many? Don't know. How many girls are being affected? Don't know. Is there any prosecution of it? Not that I'm aware of.

[00:30:36] But it's of a piece with how this works, this frog boiling, if you will. It's about exercising, a lot of times, much, much less obviously, but exercising dominion, forcing submission, demonstrating the supremacy of their program over that of the host.

[00:31:02] And then over time, this translates, particularly as the numbers grow into what I call electoral jihad, whereby the population is not a majority. In Britain, I think it's somewhere on the order of 10% overall, some places more, but overall.

[00:31:27] But long before there's a majority, there is a significant voting bloc that in elections that are close can be the deciding factor in who wins. And maybe it's a Muslim candidate.

[00:31:44] Maybe it's someone who is simply signed on in the interest of getting the votes and the money and the other support of people in the Muslim community. And that, in turn, over time, translates into people taking over political power. And we see that in Hamtramck. We see that in Dearborn.

[00:32:12] We see that in New York City. To say nothing of, you know, 30 of the top cities in Britain. And what does that translate into? Well, that translates into an incessant set of demands for accommodations by the Muslim community.

[00:32:32] And those accommodations can run the gamut from, you know, having calls to prayer blasted out across large non-Muslim populations. Having mosques built, you know, like Starbucks. Having, you know, people honoring feast days or holy days of the Islamic faith.

[00:33:01] Which, by the way, tend to be celebrating jihadist conquests. Or in some cases, the practice of stoning, if you can believe it. Now, these are the sorts of things that are, again, incremental. And you can see how far they have metastasized in Britain more easily than you can what's happening around us. But just to, you know, give you one example. I've been involved late in Texas.

[00:33:31] Where a kind of tipping point was reached when a particularly aggressive Sharia supremacist mosque, known as the Epic City Islamic Center, or EPIC, announced that it was going to take over 400 acres, a piece of property roughly four times the size of Disneyland,

[00:33:59] and turn it into an epic city with a thousand residences and hospitals and schools and governing arrangements and law enforcement of its own and so on. In which it was pretty clear that Sharia was going to be the law. It was going to be Muslim only. And it was going to have, over time, inevitably,

[00:34:26] a property that has come to be known as a no-go zone. Meaning that people who are not Muslim, including law enforcement and the fire department, are not welcome to penetrate. And again, this is evident in some places in Britain. It's very, very evident now in France and in the Netherlands and in Belgium and Sweden. And it's coming to a theater near us

[00:34:55] because that's how this process inexorably moves. And then at some point, it becomes sufficiently powerful, for all these reasons accumulated, that they feel that it's safe to go into the violent phase of conquest. It hasn't happened yet in Britain. It may be not too far off, though. And France and other places that I've mentioned as well. So this epic city in Texas,

[00:35:24] what is the status of it? And it has been paused, right? They're not going to be able to say Muslim only. Well, I think they've rebranded the marketing of it. For example, they've changed the name. It's now called The Meadow. The exact status of it is unclear to me, honestly. Ken Paxton, the attorney general of the state, running for the U.S. Senate seat, of course, just received Donald Trump's endorsement, by the way,

[00:35:54] has done several injunctions. I think some of them are no longer being upheld by the courts. I think he's withdrawn some of them. They've been using sort of workarounds to try to get permissions, permitting notably, for some of the infrastructure construction. And I think that's been checked, but I think it may be happening.

[00:36:24] They're assiduously working to get this underway. That's the point. And whether it's legal or whether it's going to be stopped for sure, I don't know. But as of yesterday, I think, I was hearing that it's still their determined purpose to get this community built and that it will, in fact, whether they acknowledge it or not, in practice, it will be a Muslim-only place. And by the way, you know,

[00:36:54] it's pretty unappealing, honestly, if you're not part of that community, to live under Sharia. Among other reasons, because you are, by definition, what's called a dimmi, a kind of second-class citizen. And the dimmi's life can be very hard. There can be taxes extracted from you. Some call it a second-class citizen.

[00:37:22] I think of it as more an enslaved person. But whatever it is, it's generally not the kind of place that people who aren't with the program want to live. And that, of course, creates the basis upon which they can have an unassimilated Muslim-only Sharia-adherent population. Okay. It seems to me that even if they go back

[00:37:52] and they remove whatever they were trying to say would be not Sharia-only, but Muslim-only, that they could just create it in such a way that most people who are not Muslim wouldn't want to live there. Not because of the taxes that you mentioned might happen, but because maybe they're doing other things in the community that would just make people who are not Muslim

[00:38:20] feel very unwelcome without doing anything illegal, just treating them in a way or kind of shunning them. Yeah. Let me give you an example. You're absolutely right. This isn't confined to, you know, large pieces of undeveloped property that are suddenly transformed into a city. If you're in a neighborhood

[00:38:47] in which Sharia supremacist Muslims move, you may well find yourself, and there's video of people in France, for example, I think maybe Belgium, facing this. But you're out walking your dog and the Muslim neighbor says you can't walk that dog here. And maybe it just starts out that way,

[00:39:17] but it can become more threatening because dogs, according to Sharia, are haram. Turns out Muhammad was a cat guy. So dogs are unclean and impermissible. Cats are okay. Now that may sound silly, but it's kind of a prime example of what an affront

[00:39:45] this whole program is to Americans when they learn about it. But if they learn about it the hard way, which is that they're suddenly in a community in which it turns out there's not just one neighbor who doesn't want you to do it, walk your dog and so on, have your dog. But there are others because typically once there is, you know, somebody who's kind of created a foothold, there will be others

[00:40:14] who are attracted to it for the purposes of taking over that neighborhood. And again, don't take my word for it. This is well documented. There's lots of examples of it in this country, as well as, of course, elsewhere. And over time, you know, the calls to prayer or the, you know, parking your car in front of, parking their car, I should say, in front of somebody's driveway,

[00:40:43] blocking access to it. Just harassment like that. Or maybe one of these houses in the neighborhood is turned into a house mosque. And suddenly you have, on Fridays, lots of people double parking or parking in front of your driveway or what have you, or just traffic or just intimidation. And again, this is not to characterize how all Muslims behave in this country or, you know,

[00:41:13] would if you lived next door to them necessarily. But over time, the trajectory almost always is that the Sharia supremacists are seeking to drive you out of that neighborhood. And sometimes it becomes sufficiently ugly that nobody wants to buy your house to move into it, except for possibly another Sharia supremacist Muslim. And they're not going to pay you

[00:41:41] the full market value of the property. because you have to have a fire sale to get out of it and you'll take what you can get. I mean, these things may sound as though I'm, you know, speaking in hyperbole. I'm talking about real world experience. And whether you see it here in large numbers of communities yet or not,

[00:42:10] you do not need to look far to find it elsewhere where this same trajectory has been followed and is further advanced, including Western Europe. And, Frank, it doesn't matter whether, it doesn't matter whether it's in large numbers of communities or just in a handful of communities. If they are, if the people doing this are infringing upon the constitutional rights

[00:42:39] of other citizens, they're not allowed to do that. And that's not acceptable and it's not okay. So, whether it's happening in mass scale or it's just happening in a handful of places, every citizen has certain constitutional rights and they have to be, they have to be respected, which is, is frankly why I made sure that we highlight that we don't think that every single person who,

[00:43:08] who worships in, in the Muslim faith is, is doing the things that you're talking about with Sharia because they have a, a right to practice their religion just like Christians do and Jewish people do. So, they have a right to do that. Others have a right to do that. You have a right to walk on a public street and walk your dog in America. You, you have a right to walk on a public street and not have your,

[00:43:37] your head covered if you're a woman. There, there are things that you're allowed to do that they can't just, they can't impose on other people and if they're intimidating people in an attempt to suppress constitutional rights, that's wrong as well. I don't disagree with the word you said. I'm simply telling you that Senator Cruz had an interesting response when I asked him a question

[00:44:07] along these lines, basically. It was at the Heritage Foundation. I don't remember if you were there or not, a couple of months ago and I said, Senator, you are widely regarded as a constitutional expert. How would you respond if asked is Sharia a constitutionally protected

[00:44:37] practice? practice? And he said, in America, you absolutely have the right to practice your religion. The problem with Sharia is that it is about you practicing their religion. It is about you submitting to their religion. And you're absolutely right, Jenny Beth. There shouldn't be things like intimidation. There shouldn't be things like

[00:45:07] a sort of coercive environment in America. The trouble is that as we've seen in the example that I mentioned a moment ago of these rape gangs in Britain, if it's a matter of concern to the local authorities, and let's not even go to the place where they have been elected with

[00:45:36] Muslim votes. Let's just say that there's a political leadership that doesn't want any trouble. And if they were to do something about a community, a neighborhood that has a problem with, shall we say, intolerant Sharia supremacist Muslims, intimidating their neighbors.

[00:46:06] And whether it's just telling them they can't walk their dog, or whether it's that they're not wanted in the neighborhood, or they're otherwise being harassed in the parking in front of the driveways and so on. But the likely result of the authorities coming in and saying you can't do that here will be trouble. will be unrest, will be some kind

[00:46:36] of disturbance, will be allegations that the police or the mayor or whatever are Islamophobic, are racist, are haters, are bigots. And honestly, I've been called all of them for simply pointing these things out. people who generally recoil from taking the side of an American who has been

[00:47:04] intimidated or otherwise feels threatened. So this thing then becomes a practice that is inexorably going to continue over time to the point where nobody wants to live in that neighborhood and to the point where there's a sizable enough population that that mayor does want to

[00:47:34] make sure that he or she gets the votes of the people who do live in that neighborhood. in this case that's Sharia supremacist Muslims. And all I'm saying Jenny Beth and it's it's possibly incredible to people listening to this who haven't experienced themselves or know people who have but it is a trajectory that is followed

[00:48:03] because it is the trajectory of the perfect man that you become more and more inserted more and more insistent on accommodations you become more and more able to get away with intolerance of people who are not Muslim and having them in those communities and so on. The point being that why there is

[00:48:33] now such interest in Texas in prohibiting Sharia law and I don't think we've discussed this but on the 3rd of March 1.9 million Texans voted for a five word proposition that was on the Republican Party ballot it was an open primary but it was a Republican ballot the five words were Texas should prohibit Sharia law and that was I believe

[00:49:03] a direct result of the awakening Texans to this epic city story and what it told them about the trajectory about what Sharia is about the extent to which it's not just in epic city but it's across that state and they didn't want any part of it so one of the things that's just incumbent upon us and I so appreciate you taking the time

[00:49:33] to lay this much out in detail is to make sure Americans who are not Muslim are aware of what the program is and the fact that it is not just someplace else it is if it's not right now at some level in your community it's coming there I have a few follow up questions based on what you just said and what you said about it coming to people

[00:50:02] who it doesn't affect I think that I would that number is a remarkable number when you first began

[00:50:33] teaching me a bit about what is going on when it comes to Islam that it was many years ago now when I first heard many of these concepts from you and there weren't there was certainly I don't think there were 1.9 million Americans if we what Sharia law means or to answer that question so it's pretty remarkable that that is

[00:51:03] happening in just one state granted Texas is a massive state but I just think that it shows that there are people who truly are waking up to some of what is happening when it Islamic alliance Mark Levin is always talking about that and he may have even coined that

[00:51:33] phrase so I'm just giving him credit where it's due so you said people are intimidated because they could be called Islamophobes and they don't want to deal with all of that so they kind of just back out and let it go and it keeps going Frank you've been called all sorts of names and I mentioned earlier saying what happens if people don't believe this because I know that there'll be people who say it's a bunch of

[00:52:03] conspiracy theories and they attack you and say terrible things about you what keeps you going despite all of that why haven't you just backed away that's one question then the other question is can Sharia law truly be banned based on Ted Cruz said about how you can practice your religion but you cannot force others to submit to your religion and finally do you think the

[00:52:32] fight is winnable so first what keeps you going then can it be banned and then is the fight winnable well you actually had a couple of questions before what keeps me going can I just talk about those quickly you absolutely right I positive of how I believe regular Americans not just Texans but regular Americans would respond once they

[00:53:02] know what this is all about scarcely any of them and I think that's true of most Democrats honestly certainly most independents they don't want to give up our freedoms we want to have our country taken over by people who are going to make us all do the things or at least submit to the things that the perfect man exemplified so that's point one yes it is a one off to this

[00:53:32] point but it we've never had a sample size of that magnitude that's for sure and I think it is very encouraging to those of us who believe that we need to get this

[00:54:08] code Jenny Beth and we've talked about this a lot over the years the globalists are a whole another set of characters who similarly have a totalitarian sort of model for how they're

[00:54:38] the think it's going to be them they'll sort that out once they've succeeded in what is their immediate shared goal which is taking us down because we're the single real impediment to the realization of any of those ambitions so we have to be mindful that we're not just dealing with Sharia adherence bad as that is

[00:55:08] we're not just dealing with communists or we're not just dealing with the globalists they're a combined I call it totalitarian trifecta and it makes it vastly more dangerous and requires therefore that much more effort on our part to save our freedom in our country what

[00:57:09] is Philip which again I've been powerfully imprinted by he said sometimes if we don't do that in other words rise to the challenge of the existential threat of our time quote we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was like to live in America when men were free

[00:57:40] unquote and I know Jenny Beth you don't have any more intention of going there than I do so that's right as to what a ban on Sharia would look like I think we're entering the phase where we're going to get down to brass tacks on that in Texas for sure and I suspect in other states across the country in fact in Florida after Governor Ron DeSantis designation of the Muslim

[00:58:10] Brotherhood and the Council on American Islamic Relations better better known as CARE were he called them terrorist organizations the judge there as I understand it ruled that that did not apply at least to CARE so the state legislature has enacted legislation that goes some way towards this kind of prohibition let me make one

[00:58:41] digression because I think at the end of the day what we're going to wind up seeing is various kinds of bills introduced in various legislatures across the country hopefully in the Congress as well but they're going to have to go after the conduct not Sharia per se but the conduct that Sharia commands for example it calls for the

[00:59:11] overthrow of our government that sedition that is illegal in the United States of America it can be prosecuted as such do we need new laws to do that in some cases there isn't a seditious conspiracy prohibition at state level so maybe yes maybe no but there needs to be enforcement but the digression that I just wanted to make this Jenny Beth this is in part going to depend on whether people

[00:59:41] that we elect to represent us we have after all a republic right so representatives are supposed to do what we believe is needed and they're supposed to hear what we say they're making up their own mind in to support and defend the constitution of the united states against

[01:00:11] all enemies foreign and domestic so help me god that they will honor that commitment and we've asked them we're trying to get everybody in your audience and everybody else we can get our hands on to go to ban sharia dot com to check out the sharia free pledge and that pledge basically simply says that I pledge to the people

[01:00:40] of my district and the American people that I will do everything in my power to prevent the imposition on them of sharia law and I think you were in a meeting where I had a chance to talk to a very senior government official about this and he said you know there's a problem if you can't take that pledge and that's absolutely right because the constitution requires it

[01:01:10] and the laws of the land are going to be violated if we do otherwise so just long and short of it is I think there's different ways to make sure that people are not imposing sharia in our country they will people who have committed as part of the compact with their constituents that if elected

[01:01:40] they will help prohibit sharia law in the district state county whatever is it winnable as you said I've been at this a long time and I wasn't sure that I'd live to see the day that I think we're seeing in the state of Texas particularly but I believe increasingly elsewhere as well a situational awareness about what we're confronting and the

[01:02:10] necessity of winning and that makes a lot of things possible that certainly weren't before the governor of the state of Texas man I haven't always agreed with and have sometimes been concerned isn't going to walk the walk as much as he talks the talk but I want to help him do that Greg Abbott who designated the Muslim Brotherhood and terrorist terrorist organizations as well and also called them transnational criminal organizations by the way and also said that they are not allowed to own real property in the state of Texas

[01:02:40] which is an actionable thing that I'd like to

[01:03:32] you in making banning Sharia what I think it actually has to become, which is a voting issue. And not just in Texas and not just in Florida and not just in the other places that typically follow on, but truly across the country. Because irrespective of your political affiliations or preferences, they're coming for all of us, these Sharia supremacists. And oftentimes,

[01:04:03] there's a peculiar thing that's evident in history. The people who think they will benefit by going along with some treachery and bringing about, whether it's communism or Sharia supremacists, they're often the first put up against the wall and shot when the people that they've been helping seize power. And for all these reasons, I think it's just vital that whether it's the

[01:04:31] Sharia free pledge at bansharia.com or whether it's through other conversations with elected officials and exhorting them to come alongside, particularly in these next five months, we have got to get more people in this country clued up and engaged in protecting us against our times existential threat to freedom. And that would, I say first and foremost, be Sharia.

[01:05:01] Well, the best way I know for people to begin to do that is to go to bansharia.com and also to your website, which you said is usfuture.org and sign up for updates with you and to sign up for your calls to action because you're doing great work on this, Frank, and more people need to be involved with it. Frank Gaffney, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been a privilege.

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